Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Discuss the future of Warzone 2100 with us.

Should the Guard Position & Pursue Orders be brought back?

Yes
61
94%
No
4
6%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby XxHAMADEHxX » 24 Jan 2018, 05:22

I just heard about this. I always thought the order and engage range buttons are cool. Despite an overwhelming majority of users asking for these features back the Dev has decided that we want these things because of "nostalgia". Which is not true. The first time I played with game was in 2010. It is true that this game is complicated for new users, but it is complicated because of how big the tech tree is, not some commands on the side menu that people use.
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Lord_Kane » 24 Jan 2018, 09:36

XxHAMADEHxX wrote:I just heard about this. I always thought the order and engage range buttons are cool. Despite an overwhelming majority of users asking for these features back the Dev has decided that we want these things because of "nostalgia". Which is not true. The first time I played with game was in 2010. It is true that this game is complicated for new users, but it is complicated because of how big the tech tree is, not some commands on the side menu that people use.


This was discussed before basically Per (one of the devs) said that the code would need to be put back in, its been long out of the code base for the game and isn't a matter of just "pasting it back in" it would have be completely re implimented.
which sucks.
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Bethrezen » 26 Jan 2018, 05:48

This was discussed before basically Per (one of the devs) said that the code would need to be put back in, its been long out of the code base for the game and isn't a matter of just "pasting it back in" it would have be completely re implimented.
which sucks.


oddly enough the current implementation isn't actually that far off from how it worked before so i don't think it would have to be completely redone although it does still need some work to make it work as it did previously

the two main things that need doing are.

1.) reimplementing a button for both guard and hold so you can see at a glance what the current state is

2.) making that state persist until the player changes it by pressing either the guard button if currently set to hold or by pressing the hold button if currently set to guard.

so what about pursue well I'm ambivalent about that because unlike hold pursue is of limited helpfulness and actually something like search and destroy would be more useful if you have the resources to spam hundred of light cheap units like cyborgs for example since they would just roam the map autonomously smashing everything they come across if any of you have ever played Star Trek Armada you will know the sort of thing I'm thinking of when i say search and destroy

basically units will roam the map autonomously looking for targets and when a target is sighted all units that are set to search and destroy will descend upon that target and then go back to roaming the map once its destroyed, and obviously if set to retreat when damage they will retreat get repaired and then resume roaming the map when repaired.
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Berg » 26 Jan 2018, 07:03

Sounds nice
Bethrezen wrote:basically units will roam the map autonomously looking for targets and when a target is sighted all units that are set to search and destroy will descend upon that target and then go back to roaming the map once its destroyed, and obviously if set to retreat when damage they will retreat get repaired and then resume roaming the map when repaired.

I use pursue to find out where a base is they lead you back to home.
Vtols on pursue are brilliant but anyway having extra is good but having the range and other removed orders returned is needed to put the game play back where it was adding more orders is a nice idea but first things first.
As Per said he wont do anything to fix this issue he has ask that we find others to fix his destruction.
Per wrote:
Re: New release planning (3.2.4)/ 3.3.0

Postby Per » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:08 am
Until someone volunteers to re-implement removed unit orders in time for the upcoming release, such discussion does not belong here, and posts on that topic have been moved to the relevant thread instead.
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Bethrezen » 28 Jan 2018, 11:51

I use pursue to find out where a base is they lead you back to home.
Vtols on pursue are brilliant but anyway having extra is good but having the range and other removed orders returned is needed to put the game play back where it was adding more orders is a nice idea but first things first.
As Per said he wont do anything to fix this issue he has ask that we find others to fix his destruction.


Vtols on pursue not something i have ever tried but then i don't really play multiplayer so that probably isn't going to help much on campaign mode, but i can see how its has its uses in a skirmish match.

In any event I'm curious with regards to the range states what exactly are they supposed to do ? the reason i ask is because i could never figure this out, despite playing with them settings the effect was so subtle that I can't say I really noticed any appreciable difference, unlike the movement and retreat states where its very obvious what these are for.
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Berg » 28 Jan 2018, 18:56

Bethrezen wrote:Vtols on pursue not something i have ever tried but then i don't really play multiplayer so that probably isn't going to help much on campaign mode, but i can see how its has its uses in a skirmish match.


The secret to good tactics is to follow the enemy vtol to its re-arm pads they can be almost anywhere and you can spent lots of time looking for them.

if someone has many vtol and they are devastating you follow their vtol back and destroy the re-arm pads rendering the enemy vtol useless till rebuilt ,

No i dont want a debate on tactics this is what i have a use for persue and hold fire etc they are very good tactical tool
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Fire Truck » 26 Mar 2018, 02:14

Bloody hell, I take a five year hiatus and when I come back my gun batteries are all dancing the polka! And why? Because the hold function was hard to discover? Well guess what genius, I didn't even know the hold function was still in the game at all until now! You've taken something that took me 6 minutes to find when I started playing a decade ago, and made it impossible to find! Great! And now unless I want to play a buggy master build I have to take the extra time away from my game in order to re-apply this hold order every time I move a flak gun around. All in the name of speeding things up. Brilliant!
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby pastdue » 26 Mar 2018, 03:01

Fire Truck wrote:And now unless I want to play a buggy master build I have to take the extra time away from my game in order to re-apply this hold order every time I move a flak gun around.

I just wanted to point out that the master branch is much more stable than 3.2.x at this point. (A huge list of bugs fixed, massively improved performance, etc etc.)
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Bethrezen » 08 Apr 2018, 16:17

Indeed i can vouch for this because my self and a couple of others have spend an incredible amount of time bug fixing the campaign alpha campaign is now very stable and so far as I'm aware works correctly baring a few general issues or any rare glitches that we missed

I'm not so sure about beta and gamma campaigns as i haven't tested those extensively and unfortunately I'm not going to be able to as the current masters wont run on xp not sure if this is just an issue with QtScript 5.10 no longer supporting xp or if someone just fouled something up, but what ever the reason the effect is the same I'm unable to continue testing.

with regards to your specific complaint about hold i sympathise, because its something that bugs the hell out of me to although at least the current implementation actually works after a fashion because previously it didn't work at all, the problem is that no one seems to want to do the work to make hold work as it did previously, but that's the good thing about open source anyone can submit code for inclusion.

question is, is there anyone out there with the necessary coding skills that is sufficiently irked by this issue that wants to take the time to write a patch to fix this problem?
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby alfred007 » Yesterday, 16:56

At the moment I'm testing master 0005774 and the primary hold order is no longer working correctly (if it ever did). In the two added pictures you can see my AA tanks in beta 04. The first picture shows their position after giving them the hold order and before a collective VTOL attack. The second picture shows the same units after a collective VTOL attack. And you can see they moved. And they moved after every VTOL attack. With the old secondary hold order, they wouldn't have moved. With this so-called hold order (that doesn't deserve this name) I had to reposition my AA units after every VTOL attack. With the old secondary order, they stood where I placed them until I gave them new orders. If I told you bluntly how annoyed I am you would ban me because of getting rude. I'm so pissed off that I am short before quitting testing until you fixed that. I quote myself: "Most annoying and worst change ever."

wz2100-20180521_155009-SUB_2_2.png


wz2100-20180521_155547-SUB_2_2.png
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Re: Petition to reinstate Guard, Persue and Hold orders!

Postby Bethrezen » Yesterday, 19:09

I've been noticing this as well that for some reason the computer keeps overriding my orders, so this needs looking at again because its not working correctly, not that it ever did but now its working worse then it did before at least after the last round of fixes units that where set to hold actually obeyed the command and would only move if the player told them to move but it seems for some reason the hold command is getting overwritten here is what Berserk Cyborg had to say when I mentioned this the 2 or 3 days ago

Bethrezen wrote:also i continue to have issues with the hold command glitching, i set a group of units to hold but on occasion they seem to ignore the fact that i just set them to hold and behave as though they are set to guard, so I'm not sure if the hold command is just glitchy or if its simply not being applied properly when you select a group of units and then hit H

also for some reason if i have units set to hold fire and then tell them to attack something and then a second later hit the hold key for some reason they stop attacking the thing i just told them to attack and then i have to tell them to attack again so something isn't right there because they should continue to fire at the thing I just told them to attack until its destroyed and then stop firing.

also I can't be sure but I think telling units that are set to hold to attack something is switching hold off which it shouldn't be, I can understand hold switching off if you tell them to move but when you tell them to attack ? err no they should move into range of the target and then stop moving unless I tell them to move and then commence attack.

so yeah looks like hold needs more work to get these bugs out.


Berserk Cyborg wrote:Yeah, I noticed hold was buggy (I swear it worked better a few months ago?). The units are overriding it with dorder_attack and are obsessed with "investigating" something. They even travel far distances to go scout the object.
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