Modding tutorials for novices?

[Zarax]

Allright, I've been to txtedit and while I could figure out weapons and bodies it looks like the research part is a bit harder to grasp.

Are there any modding tutorials with slightly more details?

[dmkp]

Try using the Pumpkin database.. it has forms to edit things. And then can output them as txt files.

[Zarax]

If you have a link it would be extremely helpful...

[crux]

use the new stat editor,flaTE, made by the awesome dude that did flaME!

[Zarax]

Again, a link would be extremely nice

[Rman Virgil]

Again, a link would be extremely nice

Well the editors Crux mentions are by Flail13 and are right here in this BB... the Stat Editor, FlaTE, is right next to this thread.

The Pumpkin DB mentioned earlier is an Access file from 10 years ago & really FlaTE is way better to work with, IMHO.

As for Modding tuts - there are some excellent GFX & AI ones in these forums and the project Wiki. (Forum Search Function works real good which is why no one has provided links, btw.)

As for Text Modding Tuts - there are none really mainly because the best way to learn (& to see if your even cut-out to do this tempermeantally) is to do what any hacker worth his salt does - take apart a working Mod like NTW, first reading what changes it makes, then compare its files to mp.wz (& base.wz, to be thorough) to see what files were changed to Mod the stock game files.

There was an Editor called War Zone Customizer Kit (aka WZCK) made for the Pumpkin v. 1.10 binary / data set (& v.1.11 mod too) that made this type of modding a whole lot easier but this editor is NOT compatible with the current game - however IMHO WZCK is still useful as a learning tool & is available for dl from Stratdrake's web site. Don't have the link handy but a Google Search will take you to it right quick I would guess.

- Regards, RV

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[Zarax]

With all due respect, I don't subscribe to your point of view.
Good quality tutorials are needed to help novice modders to learn and speed up adaptation for more seasoned ones.

Of course I can hack'n slash through the txt files but instead of a few days it will take me weeks or months before I can learn enough to do anything serious especially given how sensitive WZ parser is.

That said, does FlaTE support 2.3?

[Rman Virgil]

With all due respect, I don't subscribe to your point of view.
Good quality tutorials are needed to help novice modders to learn and speed up adaptation for more seasoned ones.

Of course I can hack'n slash through the txt files but instead of a few days it will take me weeks or months before I can learn enough to do anything serious especially given how sensitive WZ parser is.

That said, does FlaTE support 2.3?

Hmmm, I see.

Your quite welcome, btw.

And, frankly, I can tell from your boorish response you don't have a clue and yet you have an entrenched opinion based on what ? A hypothetical ideal based on nothing particular to this game and thus, I regret responding.

Good luck with your POV because I can tell you right now the tuts you think should exist are not forthcoming any time soon (if ever, & for good reasons).

Your "With all due respect" is entirely disingenuous & you can bet I'll not make this mistake again (as if I don't have more satisfying ways to occupy my time than engaging in ignorant BS exchanges).

And, BTW, at the risk of belaboring the obvious, this game has been successfully modded countless times over the last 10 years without benefit of your percieved required tuts. Poseurs are really creative when it comes to excuses for doing nothing but yapping.

Carry on.

- RV
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[Zarax]

Hmmm, I see.

Your quite welcome, btw.

And, frankly, I can tell from your boorish response you don't have a clue and yet you have an entrenched opinion based on what ? A hypothetical ideal based on nothing particular to this game and thus, I regret responding.

Good luck with your POV because I can tell you right now the tuts you think should exist are not forthcoming any time soon (if ever, & for good reasons).

Your "With all due respect" is entirely disingenuous & you can bet I'll not make this mistake again (as if I don't have more satisfying ways to occupy my time than engaging in ignorant BS exchanges).

Carry on.

- RV
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Err... I think we have some misunderstanding here, I did not mean to come out as confrontational at all and apologize if I did seem that way.

My "entrenched position" is just my personal opinion about modding which is brought by past experiences into it although over different platforms.
With that I mean no disrespect over anyone's work and for sure I wasn't demanding anything to anyone especially as I know the nature of open source projects well enough to not doing anything that stupid.

I honestly think that some amazing work has been done on the game since 1998 and I have the utmost respect for the effort you're putting in creating your own mods over it.

Hope we'll be able to discuss on better grounds in the future but at the moment shall we at least agree to disagree?

EDIT:

And, BTW, at the risk of belaboring the obvious, this game has been successfully modded countless times over the last 10 years without benefit of your percieved required tuts. Poseurs are really creative when it comes to excuses for doing nothing but yapping.

BTW, I don't know about here but elsewhere it's considered impolite to edit messages without leaving notice.
I don't know what your problem is but I sincerely think this last part was totally uncalled for.

As for the poseur, I've been modding games since Dune2 and started with the DOS EDIT program as only tool.
Having tried both the opening of files with a text editor with no clue about what I was going to find and working on well documented platforms I can sincerely say that the latter is far more preferable than the former.

I hate bragging but I do hope this can persuade you at least about the fact that you're not talking to a clueless newbie: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1101

Have a nice day.

[Zarel]

...I'm going to sidestep most of this (although Zarel wishes to remind everyone that "be nice to each other" is technically one of the forum rules).

That said, does FlaTE support 2.3?

Yes. The mod format hasn't changed since 2.1.

(Well, actually, there are some template changes that are really confusing me about how I should handle them.)

[Zarax]

...I'm going to sidestep most of this (although Zarel wishes to remind everyone that "be nice to each other" is technically one of the forum rules).

All I can say is that I did not see it coming... Did I touch some old/sensitive issues?

Yes. The mod format hasn't changed since 2.1.

(Well, actually, there are some template changes that are really confusing me about how I should handle them.)

Thanks, looks like I'll have fun figuring out how to reshape the tech tree.
Maybe my next post in the ideas and suggestions section will have something more concrete than just a concept.

[Zarel]

All I can say is that I did not see it coming... Did I touch some old/sensitive issues?

Not as far as I can tell... I think Rman just misinterpreted something.

[Rman Virgil]

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All right Zarax, I'll man-up and apologize for over-reacting & being unduly harsh & unfair even.

So let's back up to my first post which was me taking of my valued time to answer your call for help in learning to make WZ mods and, like countless other occasions, not meriting a simple thank you. (Why is that ? An innate sense of entitlement ? I dunno the answer but I do know it gets very old & very annoying. No excuse for being harsh. Just giving context here.)

The information in my original post was thorough & solid. My counsel on how to proceed was too. None of that is debatable, I will state flat-out.

The reality of extensive, step by step, illustrated, text modding tuts is that there are none and that this reality will not be changing any time soon.

I also know EXACTLY what it would take to write those magnificent hypothetical tuts and I am not going to do it for a number of reasons & no one else has stepped forward to do it to my knowledge. Getting into the why's & wherefores of that was NOT in the least germane to the thrust of my first post. Indeed, to focus on it I saw as a tangent-distraction called a "straw man" which I also perceived straddling a high horse of seeming ingratitude (let's say that this was entirely my own miss-perception & misunderstanding of your response).

WZ text modding mastery is very specific to WZ and referencing experience with other game modding is not really gonna help. Right now there is no other way to learn it than the 2 main methods I spoke to specifically in my first post. That also is not debatable. No short-cuts. Persistent effort over time; embracing & learning from "mistakes", failed experiments; still carrying on with a steady vision, enjoying the process & working hard & true. That's the road to mastery in WZ Text Modding. Even if those magnificent text modding tuts existed they could in no way replace any of the foregoing because the map is not the territory nor is a notion the will and gusto to journey into uncharted realms.

- Regards, RV.
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[Zarax]

I apologize for seeming ungrateful in that post, all I can say is that I wrote it in a rush and guess I instinctively replied on the part that seemed to touch me emotively.

I do appreciate your direction and the resources that are available (which are definitely better than going the very old way to try and find out which files contains what info), it's just that after years of working in modding circles where making all info as accessible as possible that part in your post seemed to scream against all I learnt about modding communities.

Anyway, right now I'm just starting the learning process, I've got plenty of ideas but not the knowledge to apply them all yet.
Hopefully if we have future disagreement they will be about code rather than ideas

[Buginator]

I hate bragging but I do hope this can persuade you at least about the fact that you're not talking to a clueless newbie: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1101

Hey clueless newbie Zarax,
Just curious, how long did it take you to get into the modding scene with Total War ?
Did the developers have lots of documentation, or was it more or less a guessing game?