Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 03 Jun 2012, 01:37

@NoQ: Here's the Laser line:

Code: Select all

Light Laser: Anti-Personnel
Light Laser Cannon: Anti-Tank
Heavy Laser: Anti-Personnel
Heavy Laser Cannon: Anti-Tank
Flashlight Laser: Anti-Personnel
Pulse Laser Cannon: Anti-Tank
Hyperion Laser: Anti-Personnel
Heavy Pulse Laser Cannon: Anti-Tank
Light Laser Cannon: Anti-Tank
Stormbringer AA Laser: Anti-Personnel
Tempest AA Laser: Anti-Personnel
Plasma Laser (CL): Flamer
The Artillery line:

Code: Select all

Mortar: Anti-Personnel
Bombard: Anti-Personnel
Pepperpot: Anti-Personnel
Incendiary Mortar (CL): Flamer
Plasmite Bombard (CL): Flamer
Plasmite Pepperpot (CL): Flamer
Sureshot Mortar (CL): Anti-Tank
Sureshot Bombard (CL): Anti-Tank
Sureshot Pepperpot (CL): Anti-Tank
Gauss Mortar (CL): Anti-Personnel
Gauss Bombard (CL): Anti-Personnel
Gauss Pepperpot (CL): Anti-Personnel
Gauss Incendiary Mortar (CL): Flamer
Gauss Plasmite Bombard (CL): Flamer
Gauss Plasmite Pepperpot (CL): Flamer
Longshot Mortar (CL): Anti-Tank
Longshot Bombard (CL): Anti-Tank
Longshot Pepperpot (CL): Anti-Tank
Gattling Mortar (CL): Anti-Personnel
Gauss Gattling Mortar (CL): Anti-Personnel
Howitzer: Anti-Personnel
Heavy Howitzer: Anti-Personnel
Rotary Howitzer: Anti-Personnel
Incendiary Howitzer (CL): Flamer
Heavy Plasmite Howitzer (CL): Flamer
Rotary Plasmite Howitzer (CL): Flamer
Sureshot Howitzer (CL): Anti-Tank
Heavy Sureshot Howitzer (CL): Anti-Tank
Rotary Sureshot Howitzer (CL): Anti-Tank
Ground Shaker: Artillery
Gattling Howitzer (CL): Anti-Personnel
Gauss Howitzer (CL): Anti-Personnel
Heavy Gauss Howitzer (CL): Anti-Personnel
Rotary Gauss Howitzer (CL): Anti-Personnel
Gauss Incendiary Howitzer (CL): Flamer
Ragnarok (CL): Flamer
Hellstorm (CL): Flamer
Longshot Howitzer (CL): Anti-Tank
Heavy Longshot Howitzer (CL): Anti-Tank
Rotary Longshot Howitzer (CL): Anti-Tank
Meteor Launcher (CL): Artillery
Shellstorm (CL): Anti-Personnel
And the Bombs line:

Code: Select all

Cluster Bombs: Anti-Personnel
HEAP Bombs: Anti-Personnel
Phosphor Bombs (CL): Flamer
Thermite Bombs (CL): Flamer
Plasmite Bombs (CL): Flamer
Fuel-Air Bombs: Anti-Personnel
Earthquake Bombs: Artillery
All weapons in the Flamer line, including the Plasma Cannon, still do Flamer damage.

That should cover all the weapons in the game that can be mounted onto vehicles.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Iluvalar » 03 Jun 2012, 01:40

I meant NoQ ask for the weapons ordered by strength not an appreciation of the "brutality" of the weapon. I dont believe that enter into the account for the AI.

Sorry that sentence was missleading ;).
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ » 03 Jun 2012, 03:25

Excellent!
Do lasers require no early weapon research? That is, can machinegun player easily switch to lasers in late-game?
Also, pleeease some guidance about bodies. Like "leopard: light, slow, kinetic; scorpion: medium, fast, thermal", ordered by tech level too :oops:

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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 03 Jun 2012, 05:17

Lasers require only Dedicated Synaptic Research Data Analysis and some power generator upgrades. I moved them there so that Flamer users could have access to a weapon line with some viable AA when VTOLs start to appear, though I do admit that other weapon lines, like Machineguns or Cannons, could choose to switch to them, though I'd recommend doing so when T2 comes, while they're still a viable choice.

As for bodies, well, I divided them into 2 larger groups, which I'll simply call Group A and Group B. Group A bodies are heavier, have more HP, and are more expensive than Group B bodies of the same tier. Group A bodies were designed with protection in mind, while Group B bodies were designed with supporting heavier equipment in mind. As such, Group A bodies typically require Composite Alloy upgrades, while Group B bodies typically require engine upgrades, though the Dragons line of T4 bodies (Wyrmling, Salamander, Wyvern, and Dragon) require both, in addition to Kinetic and Thermal Armor upgrades.

Initially, at T1, Group A bodies have higher kinetic armor, but lower thermal armor than Group B bodies, but as players move up in tiers, they start to discover that the differences in kinetic and thermal armor start to diminish, until, at T3, both groups have the same base kinetic and thermal armor. Finally, T1 bodies have bigger engines than T2 bodies, which have bigger engines than T3 bodies, which have bigger engines than T4 bodies (so engine upgrades would be nice to research, even if you were to pursue mostly Group A bodies).

The weight of Group A bodies are as follows:

Light: 250
Medium: 500
Heavy: 1000
Ultra-Heavy: 2000

The weight of Group B bodies are as follows:

Light: 166
Medium: 333
Heavy: 666
Ultra-Heavy*: 1333

Although no ultra-heavy bodies currently exist in Group B, that's how much they would weigh should they be added.

Propulsion Weight Modifiers:
Wheels: x8
Half-Tracks: x6
Tracks: x4
Hover: x12
VTOL: X1

The following bodies belong in Group A:

Code: Select all

T1:

Viper
Cobra
Python

T2:

Leopard
Panther
Tiger

T3:

Gladius
Longsword
Claymore

T4:

Wyrmling
Salamander
Wyvern
Dragon
The following bodies belong in Group B:

Code: Select all

T1:

Bug
Scorpion
Mantis

T2:

Falcon
Warhawk
Eagle

T3:

Retaliation
Retribution
Vengeance
Base engine powers based on tier:

Code: Select all

T1:

Light: 3000
Medium: 6000
Heavy: 12000

T2:

Light: 2381
Medium: 4762
Heavy: 9524

T3:

Light: 1890
Medium: 3780
Heavy: 7560

T4:

Light: 1500
Medium: 3000
Heavy: 6000
Ultra-Heavy: 12000
Keep in mind that, while researching 1 engine upgrade would increase engine power to 117%, researching 9 would increase engine power to 400% thanks to the exponential upgrade system that I switched to.

Edit: With all that in mind, we could see that a Viper Tracks (Weight: 250 x 4 = 1000, Engine: 3000), Bug Half-Tracks (Weight: 166 x 6 = 996, Engine: 3000), Cobra Wheels (Weight: 500 x 8 = 4000, Engine: 6000), and Scorpion Hover (Weight: 333 x 12 = 3996, Engine: 6000) all have enough spare engine power to enable them to carry up to 2000 weight in turrets without slowing down, and this is just without any engine upgrades.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Phaedros » 03 Jun 2012, 08:13

Hey there, tried out the Mod and love it, but I did have a lock up, however this could be due to my current laptop being ancient tech.

Was playing a 4p FFA with 3 AIs all running Nullbot Contingency, was doing really well (was left pretty much untouched during the early game except for a small push, and managed to rush research to Heavy MG and take out a base before locking up), this is opposed to playing the same scenario with Nexus AI and getting roflstomped.

Looking forward to more strategies NoQ! Bring 'em on! ^_^

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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ » 03 Jun 2012, 13:56

Yay it's all clear about the bodies now. And it's clear that i'd finally have to teach the AI make weapon class specific body choices.
I'd recommend doing so when T2 comes, while they're still a viable choice.
What is a better choice at T3 then? Suppose we use MG/Cannons, are we supposed to switch to Railgun-based AP weapons at T3 after trying out lasers at T2?

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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 03 Jun 2012, 15:31

NoQ wrote:Yay it's all clear about the bodies now. And it's clear that i'd finally have to teach the AI make weapon class specific body choices.
I'd recommend doing so when T2 comes, while they're still a viable choice.
What is a better choice at T3 then? Suppose we use MG/Cannons, are we supposed to switch to Railgun-based AP weapons at T3 after trying out lasers at T2?
Sadly, there aren't any new lines that players can readily enter at T3. If you spent more of your T2 time upgrading Lasers than you did upgrading Cannons/MGs, then you may want to stick with Lasers, though if you spent more time upgrading MG/Cannons, then you may want to stick with upgrading those. Railguns still require Cannon research. In fact, they could almost be considered a T3 sub-line of Cannons.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Arreon » 03 Jun 2012, 17:21

So, what are your plans to add things to the mod that didn't make the beta? :)
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 03 Jun 2012, 17:30

At the title post, I made a to-do list for things to implement in the future:
Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:Future plans:
- New models for the new bodies.
- New models for the new Cyborgs' turrets.
- New research messages.
- A new AI to replace the old NEXUS AI, which doesn't seem to make use of any of the new stuff.
- Remastered versions of some old maps, like Vision or Fishnets.
- New destructible debris features, and possibly new unit templates, for mapmakers to use.
- Possible addition of some new weapons, structures, and maybe some new bodies as well.
- Possibly integrate parts of NoQ's Ultimate Scavengers Mod.
At the post immediately below that, I listed some questions related to how balanced certain things were:
Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:I do have some questions regarding balance, or whether something should be added or removed (Note: this post is subject to change as time goes by):

- Are the Mini-Rocket Pods overpowered? I know that I increased their rate-of-fire to be 3 times that of a Light Cannon, while still dealing as much damage-per-shot as a Light Cannon, though I also reduced their accuracy to 1/4th of cannons to balance that out.
- How well do the Hijacker Turrets perform in front-line battle? Are they overpowered? Underpowered?
- How well do Flamers perform in wide-open maps? Closed off maps? Are they still overpowered, or are they now underpowered?
- Should I reduce the amount of research points that are required in order to research some of the more out-of-the-way stuff, like Auto-Repair, Mobile Repair Turrets, Hijacker Turrets, Resistance Circuits, Factory upgrades, etc.
- Is the repair speed of trucks too high? What about Repair Facilities?
- Do the anti-personnel Machineguns need a boost in firepower in order to deal better against tanks and structures? Are the Cyborgs too vulnerable to cannons or rockets, and need more HP? Note that if either is true, then I'll probably change them both.
- Should I increase the price of the fixed-mounted weapons? Although they can't turn or fire while moving like their turreted counterparts, which makes them vulnerable to flank attacks, they're cheaper, weigh less, and have the same degree of firepower as them.
- Is the Machinegun line in need of T3 weapons? If so, then I could probably move some of those Gattling Railgun weapons, such as the Leadsprayer and Sandstorm AA, there.

Also, I'd like to see some recorded matches as part of the beta-testing process.
And I also described some of the things that I might add in:
Finally, I'm thinking about adding the following later on, though I'm uncertain if you guys would want them: (However, I cannot guarantee that they'll be added in.)

- Heavier versions of the Flamer, Inferno, and Plasmite Flamer
- Dual-barreled versions of the Vulcan and Punisher Gattling Gun
- Quad Mini-Rocket Pods, Quad Rocket Assault Pods, and Quad Erinyes Missile Pods
- Multi-turret bodies for the earlier tiers of vehicle lines (would require Factory Upgrades in order to unlock them)
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of Lancers, Tank Killers, and Scourge
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of Solar Flare and Vindicator Missiles (with the possible reintroduction of the Avenger)
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of the Sunburst and Cherub AA
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of Mini-Rocket Arrays, Rocket Assault Arrays, and Seraph Missile Arrays
- Faster versions of existing propulsions (though they may be difficult or tricky to add due to the presence of this hidden in-game variable that affects engine power in a seemingly exponential way)
- More heavy turrets for VTOLs
- More fixed-mounted versions of turrets such as Twin Assault Cannons or Heavy Lasers
- An EMP Howitzer
- A tactical ballistic missile with a massive EMP warhead
- A homing tactical ballistic missile designed for taking out individual high-priority targets, such as ultra-heavy tanks or fortresses
- A Cyborg Scout that acts as a sensor vehicle
- A Cyborg Commander
- A Counter-Battery Cyborg
- A Radar Detector Cyborg
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Arreon » 03 Jun 2012, 17:59

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:At the title post, I made a to-do list for things to implement in the future:
Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:Future plans:
- New models for the new bodies.
- New models for the new Cyborgs' turrets.
- New research messages.
- A new AI to replace the old NEXUS AI, which doesn't seem to make use of any of the new stuff.
- Remastered versions of some old maps, like Vision or Fishnets.
- New destructible debris features, and possibly new unit templates, for mapmakers to use.
- Possible addition of some new weapons, structures, and maybe some new bodies as well.
- Possibly integrate parts of NoQ's Ultimate Scavengers Mod.
At the post immediately below that, I listed some questions related to how balanced certain things were:
Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:I do have some questions regarding balance, or whether something should be added or removed (Note: this post is subject to change as time goes by):

- Are the Mini-Rocket Pods overpowered? I know that I increased their rate-of-fire to be 3 times that of a Light Cannon, while still dealing as much damage-per-shot as a Light Cannon, though I also reduced their accuracy to 1/4th of cannons to balance that out.
- How well do the Hijacker Turrets perform in front-line battle? Are they overpowered? Underpowered?
- How well do Flamers perform in wide-open maps? Closed off maps? Are they still overpowered, or are they now underpowered?
- Should I reduce the amount of research points that are required in order to research some of the more out-of-the-way stuff, like Auto-Repair, Mobile Repair Turrets, Hijacker Turrets, Resistance Circuits, Factory upgrades, etc.
- Is the repair speed of trucks too high? What about Repair Facilities?
- Do the anti-personnel Machineguns need a boost in firepower in order to deal better against tanks and structures? Are the Cyborgs too vulnerable to cannons or rockets, and need more HP? Note that if either is true, then I'll probably change them both.
- Should I increase the price of the fixed-mounted weapons? Although they can't turn or fire while moving like their turreted counterparts, which makes them vulnerable to flank attacks, they're cheaper, weigh less, and have the same degree of firepower as them.
- Is the Machinegun line in need of T3 weapons? If so, then I could probably move some of those Gattling Railgun weapons, such as the Leadsprayer and Sandstorm AA, there.

Also, I'd like to see some recorded matches as part of the beta-testing process.
And I also described some of the things that I might add in:
Finally, I'm thinking about adding the following later on, though I'm uncertain if you guys would want them: (However, I cannot guarantee that they'll be added in.)

- Heavier versions of the Flamer, Inferno, and Plasmite Flamer
- Dual-barreled versions of the Vulcan and Punisher Gattling Gun
- Quad Mini-Rocket Pods, Quad Rocket Assault Pods, and Quad Erinyes Missile Pods
- Multi-turret bodies for the earlier tiers of vehicle lines (would require Factory Upgrades in order to unlock them)
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of Lancers, Tank Killers, and Scourge
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of Solar Flare and Vindicator Missiles (with the possible reintroduction of the Avenger)
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of the Sunburst and Cherub AA
- Lighter and/or heavier versions of Mini-Rocket Arrays, Rocket Assault Arrays, and Seraph Missile Arrays
- Faster versions of existing propulsions (though they may be difficult or tricky to add due to the presence of this hidden in-game variable that affects engine power in a seemingly exponential way)
- More heavy turrets for VTOLs
- More fixed-mounted versions of turrets such as Twin Assault Cannons or Heavy Lasers
- An EMP Howitzer
- A tactical ballistic missile with a massive EMP warhead
- A homing tactical ballistic missile designed for taking out individual high-priority targets, such as ultra-heavy tanks or fortresses
- A Cyborg Scout that acts as a sensor vehicle
- A Cyborg Commander
- A Counter-Battery Cyborg
- A Radar Detector Cyborg
Dear god, how did I forget that? :lol2:

I'll try and answer some of your questions if that helps:

Yes, the rockets are overpowered.
No, the Hijacker turrets work just fine (I lose some of my units to the enemy AI's Nexus Link towers)
The Flamers are fine as far as I'm concerned.
You should try reducing the research prices of the "out-of-the-way" stuff and see how it works.
Yes, the machineguns need a boost, especially the incendiary ones. Yes, cyborgs are gimpy when it comes to cannons and rockets :lol2:
Instead of increasing the price of the Fixed-mounted weapons, I think you should increase the original weapons' HP to make them useful again.
Yes, I think you should move the Leadsprayer weapons and such to Machineguns as T3 weapons.

And I'll see if I can record some matches between AIs. How's that sound? :)
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by aubergine » 03 Jun 2012, 19:10

I just want to reiterate: I frikkin LOVE the firebases!!! They are beyond awesome!
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 03 Jun 2012, 19:24

Arreon wrote:Yes, the rockets are overpowered.
Anyone else agree? If so, then maybe I could try reducing their rate-of-fire to 2 times that of cannons, while increasing their accuracy to somewhere between 1/3rd and 3/8ths of them? I have a feeling that the reason why they're OP is related to how often missed shots would hit nearby enemies.
Arreon wrote:No, the Hijacker turrets work just fine (I lose some of my units to the enemy AI's Nexus Link towers)
I don't know. Collecting data from games against AIs isn't exactly as reliable as collecting data from games against other players. Perhaps you could try winning with them?
Arreon wrote:The Flamers are fine as far as I'm concerned.
I was personally afraid that Cyborg Flamers and light Flamer tanks would go down like flies as they try to rush at their opponents' massed forces in vain. While mounting them on heavier, high HP bodies would increase their chances of survival, I still fear that mounting such lightweight Flamers on heavy bodies would accomplish little.
Arreon wrote:You should try reducing the research prices of the "out-of-the-way" stuff and see how it works.
I'll think about it. I've also started thinking about making the more critical research items, like Synaptic Link Data Analysis, take longer to research. I wonder if 2 minutes is just too soon for such research items.
Arreon wrote:Yes, the machineguns need a boost, especially the incendiary ones. Yes, cyborgs are gimpy when it comes to cannons and rockets :lol2:
Very well. I'll work on increasing both the damage done by Machineguns that deal Anti-Personnel damage (and possibly other Anti-Personnel weapons, like the Blunderbuss, the Sniper, and the MRA as well), as well as increasing the HP of Cyborgs (though I won't guarantee that lighter cyborgs would be able to survive more than 2 Light Cannon rounds).

By the way, sometime before releasing the beta, the bunkers used to have more HP than they do now. Their armor was just too tough for the majority of weapons (especially All-Rounder weapons) to deal with, so I had to tone down their HP.
Arreon wrote:Instead of increasing the price of the Fixed-mounted weapons, I think you should increase the original weapons' HP to make them useful again.
Actually, I've set ALL of the turrets' HP to zero, with the exception of Command Turrets. Reason being was that I thought that it was easier to balance. I'll probably just increase the price of fixed-mounted turrets instead.
Arreon wrote:Yes, I think you should move the Leadsprayer weapons and such to Machineguns as T3 weapons.
I'll think about moving them to the Machinegun line as T3 weapons, while still having them require Needlegun as a prerequisite, then we'll see how that works out.
Arreon wrote:And I'll see if I can record some matches between AIs. How's that sound? :)
Certainly, though recording matches between human players would yield more reliable balancing data.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 04 Jun 2012, 02:38

Attention! I've started work on a major balance change. This balance change would make the following adjustments:

- Cyborgs: HP would be increased by 10%
- All Anti-Personnel weapons would get a 10% increase in damage so that not only would they still be as deadly against Cyborgs as before, but would also be more damaging towards vehicles.
- Movement of the Leadsprayer, Hellsprayer, Sandstorm AA, Leadsprayer Fortress, and Hellsprayer Fortress to the Machinegun line.
- Addition of a T3 counterpart to the Vulcan and Punisher Gattling Gun: the Hellfury Gauss Minigun.
- Addition of a Twin Leadsprayer and Twin Hellsprayer turret.
- Addition of an ultra-heavy T2 Railgun: the Proto-Railgun. This Bunker-Buster weapon would serve as the forerunner of the Gauss weapons that we're familiar with in Warzone 2100, and would serve as a prerequisite towards not only researching the Needlegun, but also the gauss machineguns and artillery weapons. This weapon would be so powerful, that it could one-shot a Hardcrete Bunker or a Retribution Tracks, and two-shot a Vengeance Tracks. However, it would take up to 20 seconds to reload, and would have poor accuracy (until players research plenty of Cannon accuracy upgrades). Because of this, some early analysts considered the weapon to be too powerful to be of any use in battlefields of the 2030s and later, up until the final years of the pre-Collapse period and beyond...

If you have any questions or comments, please let me know.

Edit: Don't forget to tell me if adding some of the other proposed stuff, like heavier Flamers, Twin Vulcans or Punishers, or earlier multi-turret bodies would be a good or bad idea.

Edit #2: Here's a preview of the Proto-Railgun in action:
wz2100-20120603_233442-Sk-Rush.jpg
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ » 04 Jun 2012, 06:32

R-Defense-TowerConst01 and R-Sys-Spade1Mk1 are still a looped research in v0.1.2, may cause AI hangs again.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 04 Jun 2012, 07:22

NoQ wrote:R-Defense-TowerConst01 and R-Sys-Spade1Mk1 are still a looped research in v0.1.2, may cause AI hangs again.
Already fixed for the next beta. Thanks. :)

Version 0.2 should be ready by tomorrow.
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