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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 24 Oct 2019, 03:36
by WZ2100ModsFAn
You should play enhanced balance it introduces contingency. https://github.com/jbreija/Warzone2100EB

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 05 Nov 2019, 23:39
by nick87720z
Is EB now primary/upstream for contingency?
I noticed following problems:
- there are problems upgrading structures with size 4x4, such as dedicated research complex and vapor generator. Trucks have problem reaching it when tasked - half of times they drop task as if stoped by 'S' (dismissing after seconds). In best case they circle to some point, from which one of trucks successfully starts upgrade. But if even then trucks are clicked on started building to stop circling, they stuck again, only to continue build automatically (thus, chaining these upgrades is to no avail). For advanced factories (6x6) they never attempt to upgrade, always stopping/dismissing when clicked for upgrade.
- advanced control center can't replace basic one, without basic design page is not open (though unexpected - it acts as jammer too, hehe). Also I expected all taller structures (at least sensors, including this and sky towers) to have slightly longer sensor range then basic hardcrete tower.
- same about labs - advanced research complex alone, without basic lab built, doesn't enable research menu.
- probably same about factories, though I forgot to check before exiting (to free some memory for browser).

- little note about bigger repair facility (2x2). I tried meta-construction, consisting of repair center, surrounded by rearming pads. It is featured in one video (slightly before 10:19, not contingency):
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws4Pjtm1A0E[/youtube]
It is ok with basic 1x1 sized facility, with only exception - video makers did not note, that it can't reach corner pads, so only 3 per side (I leveraged this effect in non-contingency by placing 4 meta-builds in 2x2 grid, filling gaps with generators, so that 4 facilities covered totally 48 pads, with all area closed by walls to prevent droids messing with vtol units). With advanced facility in contingency one side should include 4 tiles, but unfortunally vtols, entering pad from outer side, can't be reached by facility, even if it is in side center. However it is reached if enters from inside (probably pad landing area has some size, so it is closer in second case).
Here is screen, with both 1x1 and 2x2:
Image

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 06 Nov 2019, 00:42
by MIH-XTC
nick87720z wrote:
05 Nov 2019, 23:39
Is EB now primary/upstream for contingency?

No not really. Development on contingency ceased so I took it upon myself to add all the extra graphical models from contingency and roll them into EB. I did the same thing with all other relevant mods including Art Revolution, Ultimate Scavs and WZ graphics mod. I hope the authors don't mind. As a community we're trying to improve the game. Feel free to do the same… that is, take what you like from the mods and attempt to make a better game play.
nick87720z wrote:
05 Nov 2019, 23:39
I noticed following problems:
- there are problems upgrading structures with size 4x4, such as dedicated research complex and vapor generator. Trucks have problem reaching it when tasked - half of times they drop task as if stoped by 'S' (dismissing after seconds). In best case they circle to some point, from which one of trucks successfully starts upgrade. But if even then trucks are clicked on started building to stop circling, they stuck again, only to continue build automatically (thus, chaining these upgrades is to no avail). For advanced factories (6x6) they never attempt to upgrade, always stopping/dismissing when clicked for upgrade.
- advanced control center can't replace basic one, without basic design page is not open (though unexpected - it acts as jammer too, hehe). Also I expected all taller structures (at least sensors, including this and sky towers) to have slightly longer sensor range then basic hardcrete tower.
- same about labs - advanced research complex alone, without basic lab built, doesn't enable research menu.
- probably same about factories, though I forgot to check before exiting (to free some memory for browser).

- little note about bigger repair facility (2x2). I tried meta-construction, consisting of repair center, surrounded by rearming pads. It is featured in one video (slightly before 10:19, not contingency):
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws4Pjtm1A0E[/youtube]
It is ok with basic 1x1 sized facility, with only exception - video makers did not note, that it can't reach corner pads, so only 3 per side (I leveraged this effect in non-contingency by placing 4 meta-builds in 2x2 grid, filling gaps with generators, so that 4 facilities covered totally 48 pads, with all area closed by walls to prevent droids messing with vtol units). With advanced facility in contingency one side should include 4 tiles, but unfortunally vtols, entering pad from outer side, can't be reached by facility, even if it is in side center. However it is reached if enters from inside (probably pad landing area has some size, so it is closer in second case).
Here is screen, with both 1x1 and 2x2:
Image

You’re correct about those problems with the larger structures in EB mod. It’s because WZ doesn’t support multiple modules for the same structure and what you described are the side effects of having two modules. As far as I know, no other mod has multiple modules for the same structure so I found out that multiple modules causes weird behavior, especially if the modules are not the same size.

The trucks having odd behavior while upgrading the larger 4x4 structures is because the 4x4 modules still have the same behavior as if they are 2x2 and sometimes the trucks cannot reach the area where the module is supposed to be placed.

The advanced command center does not replace the smaller one or enable the design menu. Same thing with larger labs, they do not enable the research menu.

The problems with the larger structures are not moddable and it requires changing source code. So EB mod is just a proof of concept of what’s possible and what the limits of WZ are.

The taller sensor structures have the same range as the shorter ones but they still have the advantage of seeing over hills and obstacles whereas the smaller structures do not. If we want to make the taller sensor structures also have more range then that’s easy to do by modifying sensor.json but I purposely made them have same range. Cheers.

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 07 Nov 2019, 02:22
by Kaillie
Is this mod only for skirmish or something? I'm not noticing anything different for campaign.

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 09 Nov 2019, 19:35
by nick87720z
After more tests at fortscav I got more details.
- Robotic factory seems to count as factory, i.e. it doesn't need presence of basic factories.
- Managed to upgrade advanced factory modules. One good thing, is that once lucky point is found (assuming, that trucks are not moved after first upgrade), second upgrade words without stucks (but still need to stop trucks by 'S' after start, to prevent from waising time to pointless running around of building). Is not it really possible for advanced factories (as well as dedicated labs and fortified command center) to be counted as mature lab/factory/HQ without need for presence of basic version?

One nasty thing at fortscavs - it seems like scavs develop almost instantly, probably due to modern labs and generators in their "base". When starting with no base, they can treat to very survival if not treated with maximum force (I did it like step strategy, exploiting slowdown to think each step - would be fun to see it doing in realtime :). My first approach was to create choke point at entrance, to not let scav engineering to flood my base (it is somewhat tricky, remembering how different is build time for oil derick with EB). When they are getting to territory... better to not let them start to build. There is no problems if you can destroy their vehicles, but don't dare to touch their buldings! Otherwise they will come at full force, with medium tank, to wipe you :).

Tried with nullbot, cobra and bonecrasher (last two - some git versions). Nullbot survived first time, but when I intentionally got out of scavs way, it failed. Cobra failed in any case, unless started with Insane level or if I closed its entrance by wall (in debug mode), to prevent scavs from eating him.

Bonecrusher seems to be best - though somewhat stupid, it seems to be best at countering scavs oil rush with own one (heh). From cobra - I expected it to be close to nullbot by result, but it seems still different, and despite it is claimed in readme to be ready against early rush, oil rush always beats him (when matched bonecrusher vs cobra without scavs, cobra failed. Oh, I forgot to test BC in same worst case as I did to nullbot (staying out of scavs way).
Kaillie wrote:
07 Nov 2019, 02:22
Is this mod only for skirmish or something? I'm not noticing anything different for campaign.
It was initially campaign mod, dedicated to continuation of original compaign - with such deep modding level, that it did not work correctly as mod, requiring manual change in core wz resources, but it was for 3.2.0. As for what is before my previous post (enhanced balance), it is somewhat different - looks like as if it was partially adopted, without full cloning (missing cruise missiles, plasma turbines, oil-less wind turbine generator, and some more). I'm curious if it will work as compaign ever. Probably it is attempt of porting to 3.3.0 (is it?).

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 09 Nov 2019, 20:21
by MIH-XTC
I’m under the impression that contingency doesn’t work with versions 3.2 and 3.3 so I’m not really sure how you’re using it right now.

In 3.1 the stat file format was .txt (they’re actually .csv files) and then in 3.2/3.3 the stat file format changed to .json. There was also a brief time where the stat files were .ini

Contingency has .txt stat files and thus they don't have any effect in 3.2/3.3 (they're ignored). Some people (namely FuzzyTail here)started to convert contingency stat files from .txt to .json but I wasn’t aware that he or anyone finished.


Anyways, I don’t think the conversion is worthwhile because the stat values were way different from the base game. The value of contingency is in the graphical models but the stat values were silly (like 3 second droid production times and it was a spamfest). This is when I realized graphic creators need help making balanced stats for their models. I necro bumped this thread on page 34 after 2 years of no activity to make .json stats for the contingency models and eventually snowballed them into to EB and kept going.

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 10 Nov 2019, 00:53
by nick87720z
Ah, I forgot - I had copy of mp.wz as mod, in form of unpacked dir (like mp-ref) - I used it to discover, what sounds are used in game, during first attempt to mod. Hoped to something similar for art-revolution, but for sounds (hoping to return when I have time and some sources to work with). Not sure, how mp.wz as mod combines with other mods - at least artrev didn't look broken :). Could it affect EB somehow?

It has no changes, according to my naming - with exception, that I tried two ways to get transport armor upgradeable.

Edit: One thing, that looked strange to me - assault grand shaker has nearly 1.5 times higher ROF, comparing to default (6 vs 4), but rail version has it more similar to assault cannon (80 for me). While trying at fortscav vs bonecrusher, one dragon with one such gun and heavy assault laser as secondary gradually got to base and slowly cleaned it (also good variant with secondary AA laser). At the moment of run BC used collective bodies with rare vengeance vtols.

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 10 Nov 2019, 01:54
by MIH-XTC
nick87720z wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 00:53

Edit: One thing, that looked strange to me - assault grand shaker has nearly 1.5 times higher ROF, comparing to default (6 vs 4), but rail version has it more similar to assault cannon (80 for me). While trying at fortscav vs bonecrusher, one dragon with one such gun and heavy assault laser as secondary gradually got to base and slowly cleaned it (also good variant with secondary AA laser). At the moment of run BC used collective bodies with rare vengeance vtols.
"Assault" weapons are supposed to have higher ROF based on the fact that assault cannon and assault gun have higher ROF's than other weapons of the same type. However I just checked the stats and see they're not balanced because I forgot to reduce the damage for assault ground shaker rail. See screenshot below for all variations of groundshaker in EB.

Image

I see two problems: ground shaker rail assault needs reduced damage because it already has reduced firepause (circled red). Right now it's way too powerful. Ground shaker assault also needs reduced firepause. These are minor stat adjustments that I never finished tweaking because I don't want to spend time perfecting minor details of something that isn't going to be used. The only other weapon stats that haven't been balanced in EB are the lasers, they all have the exact same stats as the pulse laser and have yet to be differentiated. These fixes only take a few minutes but I don't care to make the changes right now.

Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Posted: 10 Nov 2019, 14:23
by nick87720z
MIH-XTC wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 20:21
I’m under the impression that contingency doesn’t work with versions 3.2 and 3.3 so I’m not really sure how you’re using it right now.
Oooohhh... :oops:

I revisited start post - indeed, it was for 3.1. Strange, I remember some mod, which either required master version (at the moment of publishing) or prohibited it - can't remember XD