maps by NoQ

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o0hshift
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by o0hshift » 31 Oct 2013, 17:01

great map and nice story/
thanks u. NoQ

realy beautiful map. and hard to win.

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NoQ
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by NoQ » 12 Jan 2014, 09:45

2c-Invaders

Another [1] attempt to make a map with very clean oil placement [2].

Loosing one of the five of your outer oils shouldn't make you instantly loose the others. Enemy needs to break through narrow chokepoints in three different directions at once in order to achieve the result he could have on Startup by simply breaking through one 3-tile-wide choke. This addresses the wasted terrain issue [3].

Your base highground has as many as 4 narrow chokepoints. This may look weird, because normally the base is made easy to protect, yet this is by design. With that topology, you can easily move your army to protect all five oils as long as you control your base, while your enemy cannot instantly move his army from one outer oil to another, as the only short path lies through your base. That is, only one choke would be active at a time, and despite ineffective tower defense, your base should have a nice tank defense. Also, the attacking army can often be surrounded. Which gives a very large homeground advantage.

19 oils total = (4 base + 5 outer + 1/2 middle) per player. The single middle oil is blocked from truck rush by ruins and optional static scavengers (which don't have units or factories, just defense).
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Invaders.png
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2c-Invaders.wz
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Hesterax
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by Hesterax » 12 Jan 2014, 16:04

This is a good map And I like the fact that it is low oil since it gives the game a bit more meaning and is slightly more strategic rather than in high oil maps where the players do not need to focus on there resource supply. I personally like low and medium oil maps more than high oil due to that.

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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by crab_ » 13 Jan 2014, 00:15

NoQ wrote: 2c-Invaders.wz
Played on this map 3 times.
Tried different strategies: mg/wheels rush, cannons/wheels, defend+tech.

Thank you. This map is interesting because it allows different strategies.

Why player base placed on hill? Does it give advantage ? I'd like reduce height of hills.
wz2100-20140113_010950-Invaders-T1.png
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wz2100-20140113_013207-Invaders-T1.png
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by NoQ » 13 Jan 2014, 21:05

Why player base placed on hill? Does it give advantage ? I'd like reduce height of hills.
Did i accidentally make the ramp too steep, or there are other problems with that? It was supposed to give a slight highground advantage, a bit more so on the front door which should be actually hard to climb, so enemies would come up at slower rate.

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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by crab_ » 14 Jan 2014, 17:10

NoQ wrote:Did i accidentally make the ramp too steep
I think yes. It is too steep. Not sure about homeground advantage. In my taste these ramps are too steep.

I think attacking army have a slight 'lowground' advantage. If you place two armies - one at low ground and one at high ground you will see army in lowgound will receive some advantage. Do not know how it works, but i feel like lowground makes your army invisible and while army on highgroung is still visible. Need to test it.

So i'd recommend to reduce height of ramps. Also reduce height of 'lonely mountains' which you placed at cliffs.

After playing this i received more clear feeling of your modern ideas about oil placement. I think this works. But you need to try to make team map, like 2x2 or 3x3.
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by montetank » 14 Jan 2014, 21:09

crab_ wrote:
NoQ wrote: 2c-Invaders.wz
Played on this map 3 times.
Tried different strategies: mg/wheels rush, cannons/wheels, defend+tech.

Thank you. This map is interesting because it allows different strategies.

Why player base placed on hill? Does it give advantage ? I'd like reduce height of hills.
wz2100-20140113_010950-Invaders-T1.png
Yes-you are right, crab-this map is great. I cant play against human players. My net-connection is to slow. I cant wait to play a game with you :D
I tested this map against Nullbots. The "normal" NullBots and the extra mg-Rocket Al, the Flamers and the extra mg-cannons. The quick-rush strategy is the best. It is very very important to "remember", where the oil derricks are. The Flamers and Rockets where unable to made a problem. (research-time) The best enemy was the normal Nullbot (all in strong version). But in this not very large map it is very easy to win after 7 minutes. It is also a strategy where to build the factories and in which order. Your screenshots show me, that you make something wrong here, with the energy. I like this map, cause of the design. But you are right-to play against human players is something completely different. Different strategies? Hmmm- in this map the quick mg-rush is the best. But in a different way-not the old known way. Yes-thats strategy. And thats, because i love WZ. This map from NoQ was made because the intens discussion above. Thanks NoQ.

PS. There is no problem with the ramps. And the design of the lonely mountains is something like Salvador Dali. It is ok. It is NoQs map and his art. No influence for the game. Maybe for the Vtols-if you have the time to build them :lol2:
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by NoQ » 14 Jan 2014, 21:27

Well, the thing is, you can't just go and rush a human. Yes, all AIs die against rush, but first thing humans learn is how to counter it. And even in a mirror rush, ascending to the enemy hill on this map may cost you all your army if it gets effectively surrounded.
'lowground' advantage. If you place two armies - one at low ground and one at high ground you will see army in lowgound will receive some advantage.
Well, i wasn't really implying that sort of fight. What i intended is that 1. enemy can only ascend highground slowly, and you kill ascending units one by one if he does, 2. you can quickly descend from highground and trap the enemy army (surround, block retreat, suddenly reach with flamers, etc).

I'll have a look if i can improve the terrain. I also don't really like how i made the painting, probably even arizona could have been better for that terrain.

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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by montetank » 15 Jan 2014, 00:01

NoQ wrote:Well, the thing is, you can't just go and rush a human. Yes, all AIs die against rush, but first thing humans learn is how to counter it.
Are you sure? This map is a very good example, how to coordinate the factorybuilding and the following steps. It is not a typicall quick rush-map. Why could be arizona better? The ramp is not the problem.
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by crab_ » 15 Jan 2014, 02:22

montetank wrote:Your screenshots show me, that you make something wrong here, with the energy.
What i made wrong?
My tactics was
- do research Hardcrete Walls ASAP
- defend at my Base with walls (i have blocked 3 passages with walls and trucks behind wall who can repair walls faster than they get damage from enemy tanks)
- research more tech, spend all energy to research instead of spending money to early-game units
I selected cyborg to research because i expected enemy will use cannons to break my defense. But enemy has researched mortars and my cyborgs started dying as you can see on second screenshot, but i had good research advantage and I managed to win that game.
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by crab_ » 15 Jan 2014, 02:31

NoQ wrote:Well, i wasn't really implying that sort of fight. What i intended is that 1. enemy can only ascend highground slowly, and you kill ascending units one by one if he does, 2. you can quickly descend from highground and trap the enemy army (surround, block retreat, suddenly reach with flamers, etc).
Problem is: enemy tanks are not visible while they moving up on ramp.
They become visible only at top point of ramp. You can test it - place two armies and see: army with highground advantage does not shoot untill enemy army on ramp.

hmm.. Well speed of appearing new waves of enemy units is quite slow at top point of ramp and allows you to kill few units before other enemy units come.

But enemy can stop his army until it reach top point of ramp and next half of his army will appear at top point of ramp at one time... Not sure.. may ba i;m wrong. Have to test this. May be i just do not really understand how to use highground advantage effectively.
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by NoQ » 15 Jan 2014, 07:38

Defending chokepoints is easy because you are always in concave formation against the incoming enemy, so most of the enemy units stay behind and don't fire. Ramp makes extra sure only the first row of enemy units fires, even if they have better range.
Last edited by NoQ on 15 Feb 2014, 13:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by crab_ » 15 Jan 2014, 16:05

NoQ wrote:Defending chokepoints is easy because you are always in concave formation against the incoming enemy, so most of the enemy units stay behind and don't fire. Ramp makes extra sure only the first row of enemy units fires, even if they have better range.
I think this ramps also makes short-ranged weapons stronger. Heavy gunners and flamers can be stronger when they are fighting on these ramps, no matter in attack or in defend :)
You know.. we need some clear understanding of advantage of each type of terrain... As for me I'm just learning how to use terrain advantage properly.
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by Hesterax » 04 Mar 2014, 12:21

I know that this reply is late but I actually like the steep ramp like in the map Urban Chaos.
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Re: maps by NoQ

Post by aandras » 19 Apr 2014, 00:42

Hi,

at first: my english is not the best but i hope you guys understand my problem.

I have a problem with the challange maps,
i just put them into the challange folder of my Warzone 2100 directory, but they are not displayed in the challange screen.

But when i put them in the maps folder, i can play them as multiplayer maps O_o

Can someone tell me what i am doing wrong :/

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