Random maps

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Makary
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Re: Random maps

Post by Makary » 12 Dec 2009, 09:22

This generator should be implemented into wz.

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Mysteryem
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Re: Random maps

Post by Mysteryem » 12 Dec 2009, 11:37

Alright, I had a go at editing the map, but it won't compile. :|
I'll see if I can find out why later. I think it might be because diorama uses the wrong type of truck.
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Per
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Re: Random maps

Post by Per » 12 Dec 2009, 15:26

Makary wrote:This generator should be implemented into wz.
Not a bad idea. Too bad it is written in python, has tons of dependencies, and its author has not been heard from in several months :(

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praefectus
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Re: Random maps

Post by praefectus » 13 Dec 2009, 22:00

Thx - I've been waiting for something from Diorama - thanks again!

javierkaiser
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Re: Random maps

Post by javierkaiser » 14 Dec 2009, 13:41

Those maps are really nice to play with!!!
Thanks.

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Re: Random maps

Post by winsrp » 14 Dec 2009, 22:46

hmmm... this little program should be included with the game installer, since making maps is now like making maps for sim city... lol... it just cant be easier that this.

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Re: Random maps

Post by Buginator » 19 Dec 2009, 07:24

winsrp wrote:hmmm... this little program should be included with the game installer, since making maps is now like making maps for sim city... lol... it just cant be easier that this.
Let me quote Per....
Per wrote:
Makary wrote:This generator should be implemented into wz.
Not a bad idea. Too bad it is written in python, has tons of dependencies, and its author has not been heard from in several months :(
and it ends here.

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Re: Random maps

Post by florian » 25 Jun 2010, 08:38

Per wrote:
Makary wrote:This generator should be implemented into wz.
Not a bad idea. Too bad it is written in python, has tons of dependencies, and its author has not been heard from in several months :(
Hi! I've been pointed at this as I've been somewhat out of the loop :)
Its wonderful to see people actually using it and liking it.

We've had a couple of interesting ideas to make better team maps, which we will implement once we find some free time.
Also, I believe trunk rendering is much better now and supports roads, etc. so diorama can be updated in that respect.
(All of us here don't play trunk, we seem to like the old-school graphics better + it works on OLD hardware...)

As to integrating into wz; I would do it in a combination of "call external program" and "provide GUI in wz". Fully integrating it would be not worth the trouble I feel.

As to dependencies, there are a fair bit. Of the top of my head; Python, Qt4 (via pyqt4), Cython (for two functions that would just be too slow to implement in pure python), and clasp and gringo from the Potassco toolchain (which in turn have a lot more deps). Somebody said they would package for windows and Mac; I was going to put those binaries onto the diorama website if somebody would send them my way.

Per
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Re: Random maps

Post by Per » 26 Jun 2010, 13:21

An updated diorama would be awesome :-)

Welcome back!

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Saberuneko
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Re: Random maps

Post by Saberuneko » 26 Jun 2010, 13:27

Random maps! That's something that I'd like ingame!

Reminds me of the "Pure Random" maps on CFW! That kind of maps were awesome, since even experienced players didn't know where to find the resources or where to find the enemy, so they were obligated to explore on each game hosted.

This idea implemented in-game would be awesome to have!

It's nice to hear again from the original author. ^^

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JDW
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Re: Random maps

Post by JDW » 26 Jun 2010, 15:15

Saberuneko wrote:Random maps! That's something that I'd like ingame!

Reminds me of the "Pure Random" maps on CFW! That kind of maps were awesome, since even experienced players didn't know where to find the resources or where to find the enemy, so they were obligated to explore on each game hosted.

This idea implemented in-game would be awesome to have!

It's nice to hear again from the original author. ^^
Second that.
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Re: Random maps

Post by florian » 28 Jun 2010, 16:56

Another problem with integrating it into wz is that creating a map can take quite a bit of time, so it may be overly disruptive to the overall look-and-feel, which is quite snappy.

Porting away from Python (which would be mental in terms of effort required and code to produce) would not make it much faster, maybe a factor of 2 to 3. The underlying procedure we use for creating the maps is complex and for that task we already use one of the fastest answer set solvers out there. Overall, the program makes much more sense as a stand-alone thing, we felt.

If you compare our map generator to others out there (random maps for Empire Earth or Alpha Centauri, etc.) and wonder "why is this so slow", then the short answer is that we've used a radically different and novel approach. We've tried to summarise how we do things in this article http://www.warzone2100.org.uk/about.html in case anyone is interested.


A separate idea of "integrating" it into warzone would be to write a simple UI to provide basic parameters and have a map server somewhere. This map server can be sent those parameters and it would send back a map to all players connected after a short time.

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Rman Virgil
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Re: Random maps

Post by Rman Virgil » 28 Jun 2010, 17:17

florian wrote: .......
Somebody said they would package for windows and Mac; I was going to put those binaries onto the diorama website if somebody would send them my way.
Wha ! Somebody did this already ? Gosh I would love to play with it on Win. From everything I've seen & read "Diorama" is a gem. I'm just stuck on WIn.

And, for sure.... Welcome back Florian !

- Regards, RV :ninja:

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florian
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Re: Random maps

Post by florian » 29 Jun 2010, 13:01

Rman Virgil wrote:Wha ! Somebody did this already ? Gosh I would love to play with it on Win. From everything I've seen & read "Diorama" is a gem. I'm just stuck on WIn.
Well, with the code and all dependencies all in the open, released under the GPL2 and GPL3; there is nothing to stop you from playing around with it :)

I believe it (the windows package) hasn't actually been done quite yet, but I know somebody from the development team (I apologize -- I forgot who) was trying to get everything to work on windows and package it up.
I know _of_ somebody who managed to get everything to work on OSX, but the overall process was quite complex.

You could always dual-boot, or, you could run debian or ubuntu in a virtual machine. Check out qemu or vmware or similar.
Another option would be to look if cygwin has all the required dependencies, but I'm not so sure about that.

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Rman Virgil
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Re: Random maps

Post by Rman Virgil » 29 Jun 2010, 16:13

Rman Virgil wrote:Wha ! Somebody did this already ? Gosh I would love to play with it on Win. From everything I've seen & read "Diorama" is a gem. I'm just stuck on WIn.
florian wrote:Well, with the code and all dependencies all in the open, released under the GPL2 and GPL3; there is nothing to stop you from playing around with it :)

I believe it (the windows package) hasn't actually been done quite yet, but I know somebody from the development team (I apologize -- I forgot who) was trying to get everything to work on windows and package it up.
I know _of_ somebody who managed to get everything to work on OSX, but the overall process was quite complex.

You could always dual-boot, or, you could run debian or ubuntu in a virtual machine. Check out qemu or vmware or similar.
Another option would be to look if cygwin has all the required dependencies, but I'm not so sure about that.
All true. But what I meant was time actually spent within Diorama as opposed to time spent trying to get it to run on my Win Box. I will gladly spend 5 months working on a map but spending some hours trying to get an app to run is something I honestly try to avoid and thus prefer the plug 'n play of an install package. There is an inverse relationship for me between the quality of time spent getting a tool to run and the quality of time spent using the tool to create something new.

- RV

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