another redo of a old map - sandcastles

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lav_coyote25
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another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by lav_coyote25 » 24 Dec 2006, 10:11

there are some things to keep in mind

- this map for what ever reason gives a MS error box and crashes if you choose player 0(zero), why i havent figured out yet - none of the other maps i have do this. 

- some of the players have been given extra units. something of a request...sort of ;)... lets see if its what is wanted.

- all bases are pretty much even - ie: just the command structure and 4 trucks.

- i need feedback - please. ;D
*****************************
;D updated the map download and the pic today DEC26 2006...lav_coyote25 ;D
note that the problem with the \ /  has been fixed!!!! :D  it is now in unix so dont change it...please!!  :D
thanks to:
  from      vs2k5
  to      kim metcalfe
  date      Dec 25, 2006 10:05 PM 
  subject      32bitEW beta b 
     
If you can test it, and report back if all is well.

All I did was make all \ into /.

From my quick test, it seems to work OK now with no modifications
needed to  *.addon.lev
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Last edited by lav_coyote25 on 26 Dec 2006, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by lav_coyote25 » 26 Dec 2006, 23:18

see above post... dint want to waste space, but ... ???
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by Rman Virgil » 27 Dec 2006, 19:50

* K.... just dl-ed.... will run & input here l8r.

* Would be interested in this new version of the 32EWbeta when it's available for dl.

* Btw, I have a couple more ?s I posted in my EW "Weird" thread that I'd like your feedback on.. thanks.

Cheers, rv :)
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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by Rman Virgil » 27 Dec 2006, 21:58

* 1st..... for the life of me I don't remember "SCs" being an urban map... some reason I remember it an "AZ".... then again I haven't played it since '99..(what does "sand" have to do with an urban wasteland that is all man-made and has no "natural" formations aka landscape ? dunno myself the connection in WZ creators 'mind'.)

* Whatever... more to the point... your changes Lav are all for the better... compared to the orig GPMs... adding more oil reserves is the right move for a map this size esp in MP. The original, in that sense, was grossly under resourced though cartographically well designed. More resources makes for better GP in SP SKI as well in my play-testing so far.

* Now I don't know if your planning on adding the H2O canals to your version or not... my vote is to put them back in 'cause it adds more dimension to MP decision makeing and the GPL AI can handle it just fine based on my experience with the "Pit"... however, I should double check that point by running AI in "Fishnets" ... starting at T-1 to see how quickly it deploys hover units...

l8r, rv :)
Last edited by Rman Virgil on 27 Dec 2006, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by Rman Virgil » 28 Dec 2006, 01:39

Rman Virgil wrote:
* Now I don't know if your planning on adding the H2O canals to your version or not... my vote is to put them back in 'cause it adds more dimension to MP decision makeing and the GPL AI can handle it just fine based on my experience with the "Pit"... however, I should double check that point by running AI in "Fishnets" ... starting at T-1 to see how quickly it deploys hover units...

l8r, rv :)

* Test Results of GPL A.I.:

* In T-1 min start-up: A.I. overwhelmed me with sheer number of ground forces within 10 minutes.

* In T-3 min start-up: A.I. had VTOL deployed combined ground & air forces within 14 minutes - vtols priority targeting was excellent... effectively cutting off my "supply-line" by relentlessly attacking my generators & thus rendering all my building, research and repair opps null. Within 25 minutes it's strike forces had added Hover.... thereby covering simultaneous ground, air & water assaults - tactically smart, imo.


* Conclusion: The GPL AI can handle quite handily water dominant maps unlike the stock v.1.10 a.i. and with even greater effectiveness than, if memory serves, Prometheus's "H20" A.I. (Methinks Troman's hand at work in this GPL A.I.'s battle efficiency under various map conditions. ;).... will we be seeing the a.i. deploy unit transports anytime soon as in "aivolution", i wonder ? )

* Personally.... from a map-makers pov, this makes my happy as I have a fondness for integrating water in my designs... ergo that pref can now be just as suitable for SP Ski as it surely is for MP.

Cheers, rv :)
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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by lav_coyote25 » 28 Dec 2006, 08:04

* 1st..... for the life of me I don't remember "SCs" being an urban map... some reason I remember it an "AZ".... then again I haven't played it since '99..(what does "sand" have to do with an urban wasteland that is all man-made and has no "natural" formations aka landscape ? dunno myself the connection in WZ creators 'mind'.)

only thing comes to mind for me is when your a kid on the beach and your building ....  which is what the terrain looks like... dunno... ???


* Whatever... more to the point... your changes Lav are all for the better... compared to the orig GPMs... adding more oil reserves is the right move for a map this size esp in MP. The original, in that sense, was grossly under resourced though cartographically well designed. More resources makes for better GP in SP SKI as well in my play-testing so far.

hopefully when its closer to being completed i will have more feedback from others on this and other things... too much makes it too much like "flatmapteamwarallyoudoisfragfest" map. which is one of my pet peeves .. >:(

* Now I don't know if your planning on adding the H2O canals to your version or not... my vote is to put them back in 'cause it adds more dimension to MP decision makeing and the GPL AI can handle it just fine based on my experience with the "Pit"... however, I should double check that point by running AI in "Fishnets" ... starting at T-1 to see how quickly it deploys hover units...
l8r, rv :)


as you may have noted i have started to add some of the canals back... i am trying to decide on the large areas that are now left as stone... and will see if it improves the play.
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by Rman Virgil » 28 Dec 2006, 12:21

* By gosh Lav, I would never suggest taking "SCs" down the road of a "Mondo Frag-Fest" ;) .. for a number reasons:

* 1st - there are more than enough "TeamWar" style Maps already. (If not, by golly they can certainly be cranked-out with cookie-cutter efficacy, 1 per hour tops, I'd say.)

* 2nd - while "Frag-Fests" can be loads of fun (esp. at LAN parties) they also have a tendency to quickly become passe-boreing for the simply reason that they become strategically & tactically predictable click-fests by design - which is to say all players can easily figure out the SINGLE path that leads to victory after just one play thru - build the antswarm as quick as possible, usually.

* Now, at the same time I can appreciate the main reason these type of maps have had a legitimate place in the history of WZ and that is because WZ had no MP save and on-line games where drop-out prone. So if you spent any significant time in pre-engagement mode you'd likely NEVER engage !! How frustrating that experience, is it any wonder that the "Teamwars" design style HAD to evolve - or you'd never get to a satisfying out-come under the prevailing MP technical constraints... aka: I/we won & YOU lost !

* That said...

* My interest in maps tends to design that affords action sooner than later BUT also allows for multiple ways to victory that are NOT conditional on fleetness of fingers over a nimble mind (more of a "Go-Moku" aesthetic).

* Another way of putting that is I prefer a variety of foreplay opportunities that build to a climatic engagement whose outcome is not readily PREDICTABLE on the front-end or out-set. In other words, everytime you come to play you (or your opponent) can excercise a legit alternate route to domination.

* Kinda like being totally sucked in by a rollicking good adventure-thriller yarn / movie that keeps you in suspense to the very end... pacing with modulated titillation & varied challenges along the way as opposed to "slam-bang, thankya mame...", a total absence of imagineering or intrigue.

* All the foregoing I summarize as with "Turtle-Rush"... ergo the name and design intent of my current Map Project.

Cheers, rv :)
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Re: another redo of a old map - sandcastles

Post by rcbecker1 » 07 May 2007, 11:48

I have to agree nothing worse than a boring flat rush map. Maps should look like something worth looking at before they even become a game. Then have the ability to force stategy on the players because theres alot to the stucture of the game map. 
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