Center Control Map

[kipman725]

Hello this is a prototype map (not pretty) for center grab game play and playing combined base VS cpu games. Seems to work ok. Play with NO bases as I have messed those up slightly. Tested with Beta4. As usual public domain with editor files supplied if you want to fix any issues with the map or use chunks of it. put the .wz file in warzone 2100/maps to run.

[Rman Virgil]

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* Very creative, very different approach than most... I can see you fully embrace a map makers power to totally
control GPMs if they know what they are doing.. I like it a lot.

* Your goal of having peeps fighting over the center..... that I think will only happen in the end game - which is fine by me - because
of your base resources and structure you can turtle (which I enjoy) until you feel you wanna launch a major offensive....

* Without having engaged this map in MP with humans.... I'm guessing that your design would tend to anti-RUSH "tactics" which I personally laud because I personally find Rush thoroughly predictable and thus thoroughly uninteresting...

* Yea, some more cosmetic work can be done (that's always the case no matter... you basically have to stop to release.) but you got some very kwel GPMs down in your design and to me that is the major achievement.

- Regards, Rman.

* PS... Glad to see your 32EW can load more than just the Desert set....

* Quick Question: I can't tell if you made use of Edge Brushes.... Have you ? Or do you have the same prob as MetalBeast when pressing that function button ?

[kipman725]

did all the texturing manualy due to the map been non symetrical (well it has rotational symetry but that dosen't play nice with the copy and paste tools). Took about 2 days work to paint all those tiles. There are no edge brushes for cliffs but I did use edge brushes for the pads of res, not quite sure how to make brushes myself.

[MetalBeast]

Nice work, unfortunately doesn't work in Beta-5.

Getting this error:

error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(243,99) and W(238,98) zone 24
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(243,116) and W(238,117) zone 22
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(37,149) and W(10,150) zone 13
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(37,132) and W(10,131) zone 12
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,131) and (37,132) zone 12
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,150) and (37,149) zone 13
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,150) and (35,164) zone 14
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (21,161) and (35,164) zone 14
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,174) and (35,164) zone 14
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (107,238) and (35,164) zone 16
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (238,117) and (243,116) zone 22
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (238,98) and (243,99) zone 24
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(243,99) and W(238,98) zone 24
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(243,116) and W(238,117) zone 22
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(37,149) and W(10,150) zone 13
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at W(37,132) and W(10,131) zone 12
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,131) and (37,132) zone 12
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,150) and (37,149) zone 13
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,150) and (35,164) zone 14
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (21,161) and (35,164) zone 14
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (10,174) and (35,164) zone 14
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (107,238) and (35,164) zone 16
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (238,117) and (243,116) zone 22
error : [gwRouteLength] gwRouteLength: warning only partial route between gateways at (238,98) and (243,99) zone 24
error : [buildFeature] buildFeature - feature- 160296 already found at 127, 11
error : [buildFeature] Assert in Warzone: feature.c:398 (!(TileHasFeature(psTile))), last script event: '<none>'

[Buginator]

Nice work, unfortunately doesn't work in Beta-5.
Getting this error:
error : [buildFeature] buildFeature - feature- 160296 already found at 127, 11
error : [buildFeature] Assert in Warzone: feature.c:398 (!(TileHasFeature(psTile))), last script event: '<none>'

The gateway errors are a pain, but the only reason you crashed is because there are 2 (or more) features (or...) on the same tile.

The editor allowed this, when it shouldn't have.

On release builds, you won't get the assert error though.

[Rman Virgil]

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* I checked your GWs and they all seemed to be latched to cliff-face, 3-tiles wide and without flaws that I could see in 32EW... personally I don't go less than 5 tiles wide for passage terrain but that's just me being conservative as far as a potential funneling of group bottlenecks at and thru gaps..... plus the Ski a.i. will build along GWs....

* The crash..... really what Bug said all the way round..... 2 placements on a tile will always yield probs and is one of several mistakes that 32EW will NOT catch on MP compile.

- Rman,

[Tiberian]

when it comes to maps from any game, i don't usually grab them unless i see some screenshots.
so...

[kipman725]

when it comes to maps from any game, i don't usually grab them unless i see some screenshots.
so...

its very boring screen shot wise! just take a look at the height map in the zip file.

how do I fix the multiple buildings thing?

[Rman Virgil]

how do I fix the multiple buildings thing?

* At tile position 127,11 you have 2 oil resource on one tile.

* Go to your GW window pane and go to that tile position. Use the select tool to delete the extra oil resource.

- Rman

[Zi-Chan]

Oh, it's a Map - i thought, this is a new Feature - showing the MiniMap over the whole Screen with a Transparency to make it easy to overview everything. Too bad -i would want such Feature

But i really like your Map too
EDIT: Tested it two Minutes - seems to work fine with the 2.0.10 too - if anybody but me cares
Will give it a Game later.

[zydonk]

Found that while the map played in b4, the save file would not load. However, it plays fine for me in v5 (save map loading, too). Only problem I notice is that kboard controls are lost for some reason. Necessary then to hit esc until the load/save etc dialog opens, when you get kb controls back. (This may not be specific to this map, it's just that this is the first time I've played with v5.)

However, kipman725, it might be a good idea to broaden the openings to the corridors from base to centre at both ends. I've assumed that the AI pathfinds by zones (hence the pathfinding probs with v4 and earlier), but in fact it pathfinds by reference to targets, finding as direct a line as it can and feeling its way forward when it comes up against an obstacle. Creating funnels at all junctions helps the AI here.

MetalBeast's problem is intriguing. I had not expecting the map to load after reading his report. But I checked the map in the 16bit WE and found that there are only about twenty zones in the entire map, so there should not be a problem there. The fact that I had no prob playing the game suggests that the problem mught lie with MetalBeast's installation of v5.

As for Buginator's report of two assets on a tile: I found that in opening the map in WE32 the wells are displaced uniformly from the tiling. This used to happen when I ripped lnds from Pumpkin maps and may have something to do with the WZStarter apps. Again, the fact that the map played for me in v5 suggests that there is no prob with the map in this area either.

As for the map itself, I found that half the players were wiped within the first hour, with one player becoming dominant (over 1800 kills in first ninety minutes). I was surprised by this, given the large resources immediately available in each base. I suspect this arises because of the sluggish gameplay (a separate problem from pathfinding and one I have commented on before) generally in v2.1. One solution, kipman725, would be to provide more trucks at the start, so that AI players can grab all 16 wells fairly quickly.

Your idea is a good one, but the trouble is that the AI is intent on smashing bases rather than engaging in land battles, and only fights when obstructed in any way in doing this. I've tried making the centre smaller (and removing all obstacles) but so far I end up with colossal traffic jams. One other thing, if I may, I usually leave a clear semi-protected area adjacent to bases to allow the AI players expand when necessary (a trick I learned from the Pumpkin maps). I notice your bases get blocked up with structures and defence droids (probably the reason these players had survived!).

Good to see some experimenting in map making, all the same. Keep up the good work.

[Rman Virgil]

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* There are other ways of making effective GWs than latching them in a straight line between cliff-face.

* Like with your tight chcke-points you can instead create "Bracket GWs" around your choke-points that can effectively increase your funnel from 3 tiles to say 10 tiles (or what-ever you want) thus a much bigger "catchment basin" for units. The only thing you have to be careful of when you create "Bracket GWs" is that you don't lay any of the 3 GW strips over any struct, unit, feature or resource.

* There are other effective GW formations that do not require latching onto cliff-face - in fact, they are free-floating. Which raises the fact that "zoning" is not really necessary to effective PF and that GWs are mainly to facilitate the Ski A.I. in building defensive structs like HPs..

* This all raises the issue of making one map such that it serves both MP with all Humans and Ski with A.I. Players....

* This is a difficult challenge (as well an unnecessary constraint in some fundamental ways) when the defacto Ski A.I. cannot handle, for example, lots of water-ways or tight choke-points or start base platforms that are circumscribed mostly by impassably terrain... I know of at least 3 different SKi A.I.s that can handle effectively all of the aforementioned conditions but unfortunately none have yet been made compatible with any of the current WRP game binaries.... Nor is their an equivalent utility like WZS that allows you to use multiple A.I. personalities and compatible Mods per game session.

- Rman.

[lav_coyote25]

actually you dont even need a whole bunch of gate ways... i experimented with just one gateway 5 tiles big in the center of the map. suprisingly it worked... so i went on to further experiments - until no units could find their own butts. xD

experiment. just dont build where RV has stated in the above post.

[EvilGuru]

actually you dont even need a whole bunch of gate ways... i experimented with just one gateway 5 tiles big in the center of the map. suprisingly it worked... so i went on to further experiments - until no units could find their own butts. xD

experiment. just dont build where RV has stated in the above post.

Recent nightly builds (up to a few months back) and the new FMV builds do not make use of zones or gateways for path finding. The only purpose of gateways is so that the AI may make use of them for tactical purposes.

Regards, Freddie.

[Rman Virgil]

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* I would hazard a guess and say that the nature of GWs/Zones is made abundantly clear in the last 3 posts.. LOL

Rman Virgil on Yesterday Thursday Oct 2, 23:01

* There are other effective GW formations that do not require latching onto cliff-face - in fact, they are free-floating. Which raises the fact that "zoning" is not really necessary to effective PF and that GWs are mainly to facilitate the Ski A.I. in building defensive structs like HPs..

lav_coyote25 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:42 am

actually you dont even need a whole bunch of gate ways... i experimented with just one gateway 5 tiles big in the center of the map. suprisingly it worked... so i went on to further experiments - until no units could find their own butts. xD

EvilGuru on Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:11 am

Recent nightly builds (up to a few months back) and the new FMV builds do not make use of zones or gateways for path finding. The only purpose of gateways is so that the AI may make use of them for tactical purposes.

_ Rman