Play some larger maps

Discussions about AI types, units, tactics & strategy.

Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 11 Mar 2015, 22:48

NoQ wrote:Yeah, that's as i suspected. Even for NullBot, T2/T3 early build orders are so unrefined that you don't really even need to build your base, just proxy-rush through

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLRZVi1wOlM <-- a quick playthrough.


Hahaha :lol2: Nice idea, i would never think of. Can not say why, but i have expected something like this from you :)
By the way-i never played this vision....it`s time.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby NoQ » 12 Mar 2015, 06:08

It would disappoint you (: I once tested NullBot on this map to see if it could use its APS advantage at least in this environment. Yet it is still nigligible. Since you normally can beat him 2x1, you don't need to take more than 20 derricks. Assuming even 1 extra second per click, an advantage of 20 seconds is still too little to make difference.
Nice idea, i would never think of.
The main pre-requisite for the "proxy rush" strategy is to have your trucks move faster than your tanks, which wins even more time for you. This doesn't hold in T1/wheels, so it's not very useful in our game, but in other games it's quite popular.

Also, tower rush/contain would probably be great in this setting ... not against human though, because he would be clever enough to build hovers and run around.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 14 Mar 2015, 03:35

NoQ wrote:Also, tower rush/contain would probably be great in this setting ... .

Nice idea-i have tried it out. trucks and towers and other structures-no combat units. I think i produced about 50 trucks during the game. Finally some new training. And i lost the game after 50 minutes. I had forgotten to upgrade my vtol-defense. And suddenly it was too noisy and hot :lol2: But it makes fun. Thanks for the idea :)
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 14 Mar 2015, 05:40

NoQ wrote:Yeah, that's as i suspected. Even for NullBot, T2/T3 early build orders are so unrefined that you don't really even need to build your base, just proxy-rush through.
.

:augh: Now i see, what iceman wanted to say. On T2 Nullbot (not insane-i tested with hard) is able to build hover-trucks, without having a Commandcenter. Thats a cheat-yes. Have to say sorry to iceman.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby NoQ » 14 Mar 2015, 06:35

Hmm, right, good point.
Need to fix :hmm: I suppressed tanks and towers before command center, but not trucks.

I'd better have it fixed on the game side though, because it's too complicated for the scripts (specially about towers, when you also cannot research some techs unless you have a command center, better have API check for that).
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 17 Mar 2015, 13:28

Sorry, I didn't know about the extra added posts. I just saw them and went over them. It still has nothing to do with and what I mean and what I'm having problems with. I gone over the videos and the tutorials. and went threw the sample map that was posted in this forum.

The video below is me playing this game and watch me lose in less then 10 minutes, Why don't you guys play this same map with the same set up I have and see if it happens to you.

Any way. I can't build any more then 18 trucks. There's limits on this game and some one said they had 50 trucks. (That's not possible)

http://youtu.be/ovJfB_U1JwI

On this video I only build what was needed. to save power. When I took the 1st 4 oil rigs. Well watch the video.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 17 Mar 2015, 17:16

iceman11a wrote:Sorry, I didn't know about the extra added posts. I just saw them and went over them. It still has nothing to do with and what I mean and what I'm having problems with. I gone over the videos and the tutorials. and went threw the sample map that was posted in this forum.

The video below is me playing this game and watch me lose in less then 10 minutes, Why don't you guys play this same map with the same set up I have and see if it happens to you.

Any way. I can't build any more then 18 trucks. There's limits on this game and some one said they had 50 trucks. (That's not possible)

http://youtu.be/ovJfB_U1JwI

On this video I only build what was needed. to save power. When I took the 1st 4 oil rigs. Well watch the video.

I will make a vid . I am going to buy this fraps program anyway. I think, i will finish friday. And 15 is the max of trucks. But you need only 4 :wink:
To your vid: What you are making wrong:
-you waste money to build a command relay-center. Why? You dont play with commanders. (You never need to build this center)
-Why do you build a second generator? You have 2500 of power and 4 oils and you are playing against easy Nullbot. Build the second one, when you capture the 5th oil, not earlier.
-You research cyborg-armor upgrade. Why? You dont play with cyborgs
-Did you notice, what happend to your tanks against the enemy cyborgs? Your rockets are useless against them. Against this quick cyborg u need mgs or flamers. The rocket research is good against tanks.

So-you have all you need. A full base. Produce a mix of antitanks and anticyborg weapons as fast as possible. And attack his base. Hmm-i think it is possible to win very fast.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 17 Mar 2015, 21:31

Sense my video went over your head. I'll try and answer all your questions

will make a vid . I am going to buy this fraps program anyway. I think, i will finish friday.

And 15 is the max of trucks. But you need only 4 :wink: (Some one posted above that they had 50 trucks)

-you waste money to build a command relay-center. Why? You dont play with commanders. (You never need to build this center)
I would like to think I could at some time in game play (Your right the game doesn't last that long)
-Why do you build a second generator? You have 2500 of power and 4 oils and you are playing against easy Nullbot. Build the second one, when you capture the 5th oil, not earlier.
because after I do research and build bots to defend my base. I have nothing left. (nullbot easy, That's a joke, (Watch the video again))
-You research cyborg-armor upgrade. Why? You dont play with cyborgs(Yes I do and they are cheaper to make.)
-Did you notice, what happend to your tanks against the enemy cyborgs? Your rockets are useless against them. Against this quick cyborg u need mgs or flamers. The rocket research is good against tanks.
I can only get them when other research is completed. You need to watch the video again(Your missing the idea on the video)

So-you have all you need. A full base. Produce a mix of antitanks and anticyborg weapons as fast as possible. And attack his base. Hmm-i think it is possible to win very fast.
In case the game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

Your saying make sense. You try it and see what happens. I try and it doesn't work that way.
Not even into 2 minutes of the game I'm all ready getting attached

If you watch the video. The part your missing is that the nullbot
all ready as the Pylon Body. where I only have the Corbra and the Viper bodies.
These bodies are no match for the Pylon body. Watch my research and see if and when I get the Pylon body
show up in the research list.
It doesn't even show up in my research list as I play the game. This is 1 reason why I lose.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby Tzeentch » 17 Mar 2015, 21:40

I haven't looked into it but perhaps shadow play on linux which requires nvidia graphics card.

More importantly this is simply being unable to spend the cash as you need to become faster. Speed counts for alot!

My points:
* don't bother with command centre at this time as previously stated
* Learn the shortcut keys for example F1-F6 for the selection of degsign, build and research etc. You must learn those.
* Zoom out more, as you have to make these massive selection boxes which can be reduced by zooming out.
* Build some more trucks near the start and probably one more research facility
* be much more aggressively taking resources.

These are some things probably overlooked as you are focusing on the research aspects, but all your gameplay will improve with these points. Start on some of these first.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 18 Mar 2015, 00:15

Thanks for the info, Like i said before none of this matters. I lose the battle just 10 minutes after the game starts. I can't even build units or trucks. As soon as I take 4 oil rigs. The nullbot takes them back. I have no defense when it comes to the Pylon body.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 18 Mar 2015, 02:55

Wait for the vid. I will show you how to win with only your 4 oils in the base ;-)
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 20 Mar 2015, 14:44

Sense it's been 3 days and nothing from you. DO you plan on making the vid soon or ?. Let me know.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 20 Mar 2015, 19:03

iceman11a wrote:Sense it's been 3 days and nothing from you. DO you plan on making the vid soon or ?. Let me know.
The vid is finished. Just to overlay an audio track. I think, in 5 or 6 hours it will be uploaded on youtube. I will show it here in this topic. :)
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby Tzeentch » 20 Mar 2015, 19:24

I had a great game against a russian guy, I made many cyborgs vs his heavy machine gun tanks and won. attacked 3 different places and overwhelmed him took his resources. He didn't wanna give in
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 20 Mar 2015, 22:12

Tzeentch wrote:I had a great game against a russian guy, I made many cyborgs vs his heavy machine gun tanks and won. attacked 3 different places and overwhelmed him took his resources. He didn't wanna give in

Hahaha-seems, like this easy Nullbot plays like the russian guy.
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