Play some larger maps

Discussions about AI types, units, tactics & strategy.

Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 06 Mar 2015, 00:26

I been wanting to play some of the larger maps. and It doesn't seem like I will be able too unless I have some chance of winning. Not even a minute into the game. The AI all ready have taken over all the oil rigs and I am lucky to get 3 rigs. In the mean time I run out of power and next thing I know I have rocket and air craft blowing up my base. when playing nullbot. I have 2 minutes before I base gets wiped out.

May be I missed some thing. Or I didn't read some thing. Is there a way to control tucks and units better. The video I did find didn't give any details. So I'm at a lost here. I can play up to 3 player map and nothing else.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 06 Mar 2015, 02:13

Should not be so dramatic as you describe. Hmmm-are you sure, that you click on the "no alliances" button? It seems, you are playing against a team of Nullbots, so they can research faster. By the way-that with the oil is normal. NullBot is cheating with deity, that means, he see all the oil and you have to search (i think that will be changed soon). Before you start to play, study the minmap, to remember where the oil is. If you run out of power so fast, it could be, that you research to much. Concentrate your research on max. two weapons. Against NullBot it is not so important to research defense-structures. Thats my experience. You should win with enough cobras every game against Nullbot after a time. But i think, you forgot to click on "no alliances" because you write, that you can play 3-player maps and not the larger maps.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby vexed » 06 Mar 2015, 05:11

Oil is shown in the map preview, so, you also get an advantage as well.
(Of course, how good your memory is, that is another story ;))

I am not so sure this is a cheat, since, once you play the map X times, you know where the oil is. So, the AI can be said has played the map many, many times.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby NoQ » 06 Mar 2015, 08:00

Well yeah, even in human-against-human games, larger maps (say 1x1 on a 8-player ffa map) require a lot of mouse clicking skill. Not only you need to capture many derricks, managing multiple trucks simultaneously, but also you need to send multiple small group of units to harass multiple enemy derricks simultaneously, and defend your own derricks, so that the enemy couldn't do the same, but not too much, otherwise you'd die against a direct concentrated push towards your base. It's quite possible to obtain the necessary skill though, without spening years of continuous practice on it. But for human matches this sort of games is often considered tasteless, because fast cookie clicking is not what strategy is all about (in fact it's often a lot of fun though).

Some of the more advanced techniques include assigning each truck into a individual ctrl+group and after that moving the radar with hotkeys only, thus constantly observing each of them.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 06 Mar 2015, 12:54

Thanks for all the input. None of that works. The idea is that the AL bots can move fast then I can send them. get the idea. The game I'm playing with with another bot. The nullbot. and Yes from what I can see, it does cheat.

The idea is that a player can't send any thing out like the enemy can. The AI Bots are directed by the game. Where you have to direct your own bots. and on larger maps. It's not possible. Unless you have lots of help. And there's not much fun in that. The enemy bots can take over oil rigs 80% faster then any one else. The only way I can get some is to fight for them. Then again same problem. No power and my combat units are limited. Like creating trucks. Your limited only so many and it's hard to play larger maps when your limited.

I just tried to setup a 5 player map sense there's only one. and not even 10 minutes into the game. I was destroyed. The bigger idea is that the enemy bots you play don't have some one telling them what to do. They can make more units at the same time. Then any one else can. The bots have all the oil rigs taken before you even have one chance to get one or 2 trucks out.

So I guess I'll have to stay with the smaller maps.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 07 Mar 2015, 01:39

iceman11a wrote:Thanks for all the input. None of that works.

This is not a user guide, how to beat Nullbot in every situation. Do not use the following words dogmatically. Every map is different. This is my way, how I beat Nullbot in 99 % of cases. To play against human is a different story.
First of all: You wrote, that you can play 3-player maps, but the larger maps not. So-my example is a large 4-player map (size 140 is enough large). Please check your settings again. (picture 1) The Nullbots don`t play together against you. Each one of them is fighting for himself (screenshot ). The Nullbots are not faster as you and they have the same unit-limit like you have. 150 (including 15 trucks).
Before you start, study the map. That is the most important. To find a good strategy is 50% of the winning. I want to explain the example-map.(picture 2)
- you can see 2 important points. Mark this points as delivery-points for your tanks. If you control this points, the enemy can`t attack your base (later with vtols-but this should not occur). And you will control 12 oils during the game. That should be more than enough.
To achieve this objective, I propose this way: Build in this order: factory (after finishing -build 2 trucks more)-research fac-Commandcenter-2 more factories-powergenerator-powergenerator-research fac-powergenerator. That’s it. After 6 minutes a third research fac and a fourth factory. And now the most important: To many players try to research to much and forget to build units. When the 3rd truck is produced, let him build with the other 2 trucks your base. Don`t care for the oil outside your base. You have time. It is more important to finish your 3 factories and to send your tanks out to the delivery-points. The 4th truck will capture the oil outside (the oil in the base should make some of the basetrucks).
The researchtree: mg-mg hardened bullets. After 90 seconds you can build tanks in your first factory. Send them to point 1 (at the same time the 4th truck will be produced and he is going out to capture the oil outside. Now research engineering. The clock shows 2 minutes and your second factory is ready for producing tanks (point 3). After two and a half minutes the third factory (deliverypoint 2). This point is more important , because it could be attacked from two sides. Now-after 3 minutes and 20 seconds engineering is finished. Research now the fuel injection engine. At this time I stop for 10 seconds the producing of units and build my second research fac. You should now have 3 tanks at point 2 and 5 tanks at point 1+3. 6 tanks are on their way to help-don’t panic. And don’t attack oils, which are captured from player 3-that would be a provocation. Hold your position. Now the second research fac is ready to research the half-track propulsion. The clock shows now 5 minutes and 15 seconds and the research of the fuel injection engine is finished. Its time to research the powermodule and to build the 3rd research fac and the 4th factory. You must have enough power for that. I am sure. 6 minutes: Now you can build half tracks. Do that!! Produce units. Research at the same time the next upgrade APDSP-Bullets and with the 3rd fac the mini rocket pod. The power module is finished. Build them and research now the cyborg factory. 7 minutes and 15 seconds-the rockets are researched. Upgrade them to HE-Rockets at the same time the twin-mg is ready for research do that but DON’T PRODUCE TWINMG later -We have enough mgs outside. Stop the production of the mgs and start to build rockets at each factory. We need the twin-mg only for the research tree. After 9 minutes you will hear a very lovely voice, that all is researched. You have now 3 choices for research. Go on with the factory module, the upgrade to mg MK2 and the rocketsMK2 After 12 Minutes finally you can research the cobra body, the rocket array and the heavy mg. That’s all what you need. Oh sorry-research after that the repair-turret and the repair fac. Don’t research anything more, because it is not necessary in this case. During the research don’t forget to build the factoriemoduls on your factories.
IMPORTANT: I never order my units to repair at medium or heavy damage until I have the cobra-body. It is very important to hold the delivery points. Don’t let one or two heal tanks alone. The heavy damaged units can help. Forget the experience. You are playing against Nullbot!. When I think, the time is come to attack the enemy bases I build with my trucks repair-facs and lets go.
That’s the way for this map. Somebody would research the sensors-that’s ok, if you want to get the research-module as fast as possible and to help your units to see, what happened. Try at first the easy maps, you can find in the addonssection  Sorry for my bad English.

Have fun.
Regards

PS-Forbidden means: Forbidden for you-let the Nullbots fight there and loose their units :lol2:
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 07 Mar 2015, 01:57

Sorry, i forgot the most important :oops:
When all is researched i place the deliverypoints in the middle with repairfacilities. Look at the number of my units and the power. I didn`t cheat except with deity, what i need to make the screenshots. Good luck.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 07 Mar 2015, 03:53

Thanks for the tutorial. And I'm sorry I don't under stand.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 07 Mar 2015, 04:28

iceman11a wrote:Thanks for the tutorial. And I'm sorry I don't under stand.

So-i think you should read the basics http://betaguide.wz2100.net/index.html

Try it out-step by step-here is the map (under license GP 2+) made by the FlaMe-generator. I know, that i should post this map in the addonsection, but it is only a map for this test. Nothing special.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 07 Mar 2015, 11:25

No wonder I didn't see this map. Can you tell me where to put this file. So I can try out this map. What folder do I add this map too so I can play it.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 07 Mar 2015, 12:39

I figure out how to add this map to the game. The problem is I started playing it, I started spanning out and taking oil rigs on the way. (Sense the bot all ready took all of them), and when I reach there base. I decided to attack, and got wipe out. They all ready had long range rockets and canons. (It hasn't been an 1/2 hour after game start) Your telling me to beat this. ? You need to make a video and give details of what your going from 1 minute to the next. I don't see how your beating this game using maps of 4 player and over.

As you can see that this happens in the smaller maps all so. How ever the enemy bots are limited on power. So I only build what I need to advance. I send out units to take out oil rigs and send in trucks to take them. building towers and what I need on the way. I then make a new base and start building arms and units there. I then move out again. This is how I have all ways done it in the past.

The point is that the bots cheat to get what ever they need to beat me. I all so saw a weapon that changes my units into enemy units. And I'm thinking Hmm. What a cheat. All the oil rigs are taken before I can even start to send one truck out. So I need to see some kind of video showing me just what your doing. What your saying makes no sense at all.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 07 Mar 2015, 13:01

NoQ plays here, like i would do against 3 allied Bots. Watch and study. This vid is basically. Its a small map, but you can use the informations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1moFSC07rkE
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby iceman11a » 07 Mar 2015, 18:00

Some things I don't under stand.

1) How did you make all of the units. with very little power. When I try this. I run out of power.
2) The video said some thing about giving more then one order to a unit. (How do you do that)

3) Maybe I'm not as fast as you are.

When I play, if I don't keep up with my research. The enemy units just over run my base with better units.
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby Hesterax » 07 Mar 2015, 18:46

iceman11a wrote:Some things I don't under stand.

1) How did you make all of the units. with very little power. When I try this. I run out of power.
2) The video said some thing about giving more then one order to a unit. (How do you do that)

3) Maybe I'm not as fast as you are.

When I play, if I don't keep up with my research. The enemy units just over run my base with better units.

This is a rush strategy, where your focus is to destroy the enemy base before they can research better weapons than you do, and you will have to sacrifice a late game advantage in research if you start the game with this build. And of course the amount of units that you can make early game depends on the amount of power that you have in the beginning of the game, set it on a higher value on the game setup. And for number 2, just hold shift while placing different buildings.

Note: As is explained in the comments sections, NoQ did this on an older version of Warzone 2100 where armor was a bit different back then. Don't try defeating 3 enemy bots at maximum difficulty like he did just yet :wink:

And another note: Don't try using this tactic on larger maps where your forces will be obsolete by the time they can reach and attack the enemy base. Though you can modify the build so that you can use it to gain an early game advantage when capturing oil derricks :lecture:
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Re: Play some larger maps

Postby montetank » 07 Mar 2015, 19:09

iceman11a wrote:3) Maybe I'm not as fast as you are.
Thats not the reason. I have to repeat: Please read the guide. And play the campaign first. Learn the shortcuts. For example: If you click Ctrl+a all your combat units will be selected and then click ,u that for example would mean: all combat units ordered for long range shots and retreat at medium damage. It seems, that you want to play Warzone like an experienced player. Thats not possible. Warzone is a very complex game like chess, and thats the reason i like it. First time i played the game 7 years ago, without any help i solved the campaign. Try it out. You can find many vids on youtube. And the shortkeys you can find under OPTIONS-keymappings. I am not sure, but i think the shift t command for the trucks are not in function, the other should be. If you play the game every day 30 minutes, you will see, that you will handle with the shortcuts easily. Its like driving a car. You won`t think anymore, what you have to click. Good luck.
PLAY THE CAMPAIGN FIRST! :lecture:

And reduce the speed---thats not a shame.
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