Kicking Noobs ok?

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ajstasic
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Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by ajstasic » 23 Apr 2013, 04:44

I've seen a lot of hosts kick noobs recently for, well, being nothing more than noobs. But that begs the question--how does one get the experience to graduate from noob to one of more experience? Personally, I feel that we need the noobs because it, over time, increases the number of potential players. I feel that many hosts that kick noobs which sends the wrong message. This limits their experience opportunities and we reduce the available opponents. I made many mistakes when I was a noob, but I learned from the more experienced ones. Shouldn't we do the same to the next generation of players?

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Rommel
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Rommel » 23 Apr 2013, 16:45

Well joining a game with a dummy beside your name is asking to be kicked. Noobs should play enough single player skirmish to get at least some half decent rank before trying to join MP games. I used to let them play as I thought much the same as you, but in the end it just ruins the game and causes arguments, so now I ask if they are a noob, if so I tell them to go practice and then come back.

oh and it also means to define noob... lol I have been playing for months and I still class myself as a noob, or at most an intermediate player - there are some real pros out there :ninja:
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The Overlord
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by The Overlord » 23 Apr 2013, 19:23

You cannot get the ranks by playing skirmish - Only multiplayer games can get you rank. I guess you could host a password protected game in the lobby and put only bots then play them that way.

Noobs are kicked from certain games because we, as hosts want to balance the games. Games are just not very fun in you know before the game that you will lose.

By the way, there are many games that you can play if you are a noob, you just have to find them or learn to host yourself. ;)
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Rommel
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Rommel » 23 Apr 2013, 19:40

hmmm I seem to remember getting rank from skirmish games, maybe I am mistaken
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by NoQ » 23 Apr 2013, 20:05

The problem is, a strong player cannot enjoy the game when there is at least one weak player around; it'll instantly break the team or ffa setting balance. But it's very painful to get kicked. And also with anonymous players it's very hard to detect noobs reliably. So i think the best way is to try to not host open games at all if it makes you kick noobs. Instead you can eg. rely on IRC to gather players. Putting up a "no noobs" mark in the game name is not very effective, as most noobs don't know that they are ones.

If a newbie wants to get trained, joining good players in team matches is a bad idea; you won't learn much, but only annoy your teammates ("gah we lost because this guy turned out to be a total noob"). A much better idea is to find a good player and play a few 1x1 matches against him, and make him explain your mistakes in every match. Again, it's much easier to arrange on IRC, where you can ask "hey guys can you train me?" even without joining any game, and also meet up with the opponent after the game has finished. It's not fun for a good player to defeat a noob he'd never meet again, but teaching and seeing the opponent learn stuff makes quite a difference.

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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Zepherian » 01 May 2013, 12:56

And lets not forget the many times a noob will join a game, see he is totally outmatched and just leave, leaving the more advanced players dead in the water. It's a right of passage thing, if someone wants to play warzone online they have to learn basic game mechanics and get some speed. This won't normally happen in a multiplayer setting beyond 1v1, it's an individual effort. I don't like the kick but I will tell Noobs if they are not ready, or, try and balance teams so noobs are at the least on both sides so as to maintain game. We were all noobs once, I remember my first game of online warzone, where I was introduced to such things as the bug hover truck and was fighting a 10 to 1 unit ratio. I stuck with it and got better, thinking about what could be done to get better. Some noobs will become players, some will find their game elsewhere, it's just how it is.

Warzone, like any strategy game, requires some dedication and time. The kick is just a zen thing in that whole process.

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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Fabio_IT » 02 May 2013, 19:18

i put often totally noob in my team, if they speacking english i ask the to do research or some things.
or i show they how i play. Often they are useful for the team.
In warzone the team wins. If you're pro you must teach and put the condition for your team to help you.
Pro or noob.. team works. :!:

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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by The Overlord » 02 May 2013, 19:28

"Teaching" only works on some noobs, a lot are content to do their own thing no matter what you tell them or think they are too good for your advice. However there are some that react favorably, few as they are.
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by aubergine » 03 May 2013, 04:40

If your teaching style is to "tell them" what to do, maybe that's the problem? Most people want to have some understanding of *why* they are being asked to do something before they'll do it.
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Zepherian » 03 May 2013, 13:48

But they are being told emphatically because they just joined what in effect is a miniture war. If you play vrs some of the names on this thread you don't have time to open school. This very reason is why noobs get kicked when there are 7 or 8 experienced players in a game room. That slot is the difference between a chance and no chance. If you're playing against someone who is rushing close to the theoretical production maximum, sometimes getting full unit transfers from one or two or even three or four players, there has to be a coordinated effort to stop it, something someone who is still learning the interface can't come up with. They should not be there, yet. I have seen players put up four sensor towers next to the HQ...

Which is why instead of debating the kick, perhaps the focus should be on some sort of crowd sourced multiplayer tutorial to be included into a future release of this fine little game? That would introduce new players to multiplayer concepts like unit rush, working with multiple groupings, unit transfer, correct use of sensor units (especially CB) and towers, build orders for high oil maps and multiple build orders with shift and control and drag, more efficient unit design, combined arms effect in armies, coutering vtols, research paths and team research, etc etc etc.

An inbuilt communication system so voice comms could be streamed would be invaluable in speeding up the learning process, but I do realize that this is asking too much from a community based effort such as Warzone.

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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by themac » 04 May 2013, 09:26

If he has to kick other players to avoid loosing the match himself, he may be the Noob here. Same personal issue as in many other online multiplayer rts games. StarCraft II for example. The ones who shout loud and flame all the time against the own team being noobs are often the biggest noobs itself. Often they quit early telling they won´t play with noobs. Then the others win the match without that guy. Sometimes amusing. :)

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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by The Overlord » 06 May 2013, 02:00

themac - You must not understand, I think.

Example: One experienced player and one 'noob' vs two experienced players. -> the experienced player on the first team is tied up with another experienced player of the opposite team. At the same time, the other experienced player of the second team is killing the 'noob.'

This is why I dislike playing with these inexperienced players (noobs) in tough games against other players of my experience level.
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Iluvalar » 06 May 2013, 06:26

Excactly, the logic is there

1- An host is most likely a knowledgeable player
1A- There is always at least one knowledgeable player in the game
2- The host try to balance both teams to have the same stenght. Otherwise games are boring.
2A- The host need a even number of good players.
3- Teams battles can rarely work with uneven number of player.
3A- The host will most likely host an even players games.

Shake all this together, you'll realize that unfortunately, the host need to kick noobs sometime to make the game fair and enjoyable. Sometime you can fit them in your team, but not always...

Unless you play the NRS mod in which case, you can of course use the handicap system to make things even once again.
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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by Perseus » 06 May 2013, 23:32

Rommel wrote:hmmm I seem to remember getting rank from skirmish games, maybe I am mistaken
Yes, i'm sure you can gain rank from playing skirmish games.
The Overlord wrote:"Teaching" only works on some noobs, a lot are content to do their own thing no matter what you tell them or think they are too good for your advice. However there are some that react favorably, few as they are.
I try to help new players as much as I can, but I agree, it takes time as well - you're usually very busy, so it's not really possible to also teach them everything they need to know.
NoQ wrote:The problem is, a strong player cannot enjoy the game when there is at least one weak player around; it'll instantly break the team or ffa setting balance. But it's very painful to get kicked.


It's not always new players that get kicked, experienced players sometimes get kicked as well, often without warning and usually for silly reasons.
One solution might be banning these hosts from hosting in the lobby (for a brief period).

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Re: Kicking Noobs ok?

Post by themac » 08 May 2013, 18:20

@ Overlord: An other player is not a noob just because he does not play how you like to see him playing... Maybe you are also not playing the way HE would like to see from you. So in HIS opinion YOU are the noob. :-)

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