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Assault Gunner
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Assault Gunner » 17 Feb 2010, 23:11

Assault gun has lower damage against everything but VTOLs and Cyborgs due to damage modifiers based on weapon type.
"There is no greater Void than the one between your ears." - Void Ray, StarCraft 2.
Especially the Void between the ears of people who think that No VTOL is a good idea, and won't lead to arty wars. I've won one, and I have to say: I hated it.

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Zarel
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The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Zarel » 17 Feb 2010, 23:23

Vibonacci wrote:I haven't done any math but after trying it ingame it feels the added speed of Retribution in comparison to tiger is a big advantadge especially since the higher armor counterfits the small loss in body points.

Another Q: why don't people use assault cannon when they get it in mid beta campaign instead of heavy cannon while it has higher DPS (ROFxDAMAGE ; range the same) and lower weight?
That's DPS-A0. At standard armor levels, HC has better DPS.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by themousemaster » 17 Feb 2010, 23:58

kringled wrote:I'll have to look for the E-W line in gamma 8 and make sure some key structures are S of it. From my first pass through experience, it's not that far up from the southern edge, so you don't have a lot of room to put things in. In gamma 7, I basically abandoned everything north of the line that opened up in gamma 6, and just kept a small # of trucks up there to rebuild oil derricks. Energy is not that limiting on these late gamma maps, and the # of artillery structures that I have at the start of gamma 8 could be described as rather alarming.
Put it this way:

when you get to the stage where you have to... erm... "capture stuff" from NEXUS, before finishing that stage off, I recommend moving ALL of your main base to the extreme S end of the INSANELY VERTICALLY HUGE map. When that stage hits, the line you are referring to having "opened" for gamma 6 will no longer be accessible anyway, so don't worry too much about what goes on above it.

Another thing of note about the LASSAT is that it doesn't like moving S beyond your own structures, unless you build something higher than it has already shot at. So building solid areas of MG bunkers in non-passed-by-NEXUS-military area can substantially slow down the North/South progression of the LASSAT (In the 2nd to last stage the LASSAT can go all the way down... but if I put 7X7 MGbunker "fields" out there, it seems to want to focus on them till there are, like, 4 left standing before moving on)

Don't worry, there is plenty of derricks in the lower areas... and the very last map has no timer (which doesn't mean it's cake, mind you)

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by mcbask » 18 Feb 2010, 06:06

kringled wrote:
Interesting. Definitely a low cost, fast way to get it done. It does take a bit more explicit advantage of the AI's limitations than the lots of ground defenses solution I used. Mine took a lot more of my time (in building), but I had the energy to spare and then some, and it was a bit more entertaining while waiting for the transport to return.
I wonder, if you have a sensor tower in just the right location, if the incoming ground troops can be closed in with trank traps as you suggest, and still be subject to long range bombardment. I may have to play with that.

Keith
i suppose howitzers will destroy tank traps (due to inaccuracy and splash damage). ripples might do, though..

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by 3drts » 21 Feb 2010, 03:49

Zarel wrote:
3drts wrote:Cannons actually can be useful the whole game, but I would swap them for rails if you use them at all (now that rockets upgrade - they didn't used to do that - I see little use for cannons, and that rockets may be useful the whole game as well)
Well, missiles have always upgraded, so I don't see any difference for T3.
Well the cannon used to be useful the whole game, even after gauss came out, cannons were still effective (although not optimal).
Rockets were not useful the whole game, now that they upgrade, they probably are useful the whole game, and can stand along side t-3 missiles the way cannons stood alongside T-3 gauss.

Also, now rockets are so effective, I wonder why I even bother using cannon tanks.

And missile damage UGs always worked, but the ROF upgrades didn't work originally.
When they first "fixed" lancers, such that the damage upgrades worked, they were then like the missiles: damage UGs worked, ROF didnt.

Assault Cannons: huge disappointment, never useful in campaign. If only it was as powerful relative to the previous cannons (light, med Heavy, leave out t-2 HPV), as the Assault gun was to the previous MGs (mg, twin mg, heavy MG).

Utterly inadequate damage to get through tank armor.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Zarel » 21 Feb 2010, 05:38

3drts wrote:Well the cannon used to be useful the whole game, even after gauss came out, cannons were still effective (although not optimal).
Which is not a good thing.

Sadly, the recent cannon changes will probably make them do that again. :/

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by 3drts » 24 Feb 2010, 16:52

not a good thing?
wut? y?
Good 'Ol Trusty Cannons, I see no reason for them to be completely ineffective.
Much like sci fi games set in the future, that still use machine guns.

Sure, some longer range, more accurate, more powerful weapons should appear, but cannons should still have a fighting chance if they get in range and have numbers on their side.
It shouldn't be like fighting a vengeance tracks with mini-pod or the machinegun.

First time I went through campaign, I kept my HC units until the last mission when I got gauss, not that I didn't recycle many of them to make scourge and pulse tanks... they became a smaller fraction of my forces, but I didn't view them as completely obsolete - after all, you are still upgrading cannons and MGs, even in gamma campaign.
Why upgrade an obsolete weapon, if it is still going to be obsolete?

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Pangaea » 07 Mar 2010, 07:01

themousemaster wrote: A good strategy for this stage is to have your new Bombard-Hover squad, following that new Sensor-Hover tank, take out key areas from offshore, and then march your tanks northward. Regardless of how much of my suggestions you follow, I seriously recommend using this method.
This is written about Alpha 12. I've tried to do this, but it seems like an impossible task as the sensor hover needs to be too close to land to get within range for the bombards to start doing their thing, which leads to the sensor itself getting attacked.

Were any able to follow this strategy, and how did you do it?

I just checked the guide, and if I'm not mistaken a hover sensor has a range of 12, while a sensor tower has 16. Though it would be slower, I reckon it would be safer to use sensor towers instead. But according to the same guide lancer towers and hardpoints, which are littered in this mission, only have range of 4-9. So I really don't get why they keep taking out my sensor all the time.

---

I did manage to pass the stage using my command group and setting up repair bays as I progressed. But it was difficult to progress, especially when penetrating the bases, and particularly when approaching the second as there are just a silly amount of bunkers, pits and towers all over the place. I lost some (quite experienced) units, and didn't have time to prepare anything for next stage.

It's a bit annoying to have these timers to worry about all the time tbh, and having to prepare for next stage (or in 4) with this that or the other to have a chance of beating them. Without reading the walkthrough I'm pretty sure I would have gotten obliterated in some missions, and never made the time in others.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by kringled » 07 Mar 2010, 14:46

I was able to use that method just fine, but there are some oddities about using sensor tanks that you may not have hit before. First, which version of the game are you playing? (There's a change to sensor behavior in the later 2.3 betas that isn't there in 2.2.4).
If you're playing 2.2.4, you need to manually designate targets by selecting the sensor tank and clicking on the target as the sensor icon shows. You should then have a stable crosshairs on the target until destroyed. In 2.3 beta 10 and later, sensor's will automatically designate targets when set to "Fire at Will", but sometimes you can get them to target items manually from further out than the automatic designation. Sensor tanks usually need some kind of line of sight on their target, so occasionally with elevation changes, a sensor may not be able to spot a target it's very close to (this can happen with the elevated bunkers in alpha 12.) Sometimes in this case it's better to back the sensor off and approach from further away on a different approach to the target.

Keith

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Pangaea » 07 Mar 2010, 16:45

I first tried it on 2.2.4, and as you say the sensor didn't automatically assign targets. I clicked on them manually, but the sensor got so close to them that they got attacked and died quickly.

I have now updated to 2.3 beta 11, so the sensor assigned target manually. But they still needed to get darn close for anything to happen. The result was therefore the same, they got easily taken out by lancer hardpoints. I specifically tried this on the area where they have their LZ. But even though I crept the sensor closer and closer it still got taken out by the lancers (I think that's what they have there). It just doesn't seem right, cause the sensor had to go so close he was almost on land before the bombard started firing. Naturally this was well within range of the lancers.

Yesterday I tried with sensor towers, and this worked much better. Now the bombards kept firing from far, far away, taking out anything in their path. Not ideal as it takes time to build them all over the place, but at least it got the job done. Probably need to replay it tbh, as they took out everything on the plateau, so when I march up there and take out the factory the stage ends.

When I have removed everything else in the first base bar the plethora of bunkers, is it enough to take out the sensor on the hill to the northwest to "end" that base? I think that's what has ended it twice now. At least one time I think a lot of the bunkers were still present when I took out the sensor tower.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by themousemaster » 08 Mar 2010, 02:48

I don't think a single bunker, all stage, is mandatory. I've yet to have trouble using my method (as even though a sensor is less range than a Bombard to start, it's still a longer range than the bunkers its targetting) (your mileage vs the mortars at the end may vary).



Also peeps, unless a disaster strikes in the next frew days, I get a week's vacation from work starting the 15th. I'll have time for at least a couple more stages then :)

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by ajl1176 » 08 Mar 2010, 04:33

themousemaster wrote:I don't think a single bunker, all stage, is mandatory. I've yet to have trouble using my method (as even though a sensor is less range than a Bombard to start, it's still a longer range than the bunkers its targetting) (your mileage vs the mortars at the end may vary).



Also peeps, unless a disaster strikes in the next frew days, I get a week's vacation from work starting the 15th. I'll have time for at least a couple more stages then :)
SUUUWWWWEEEEET! It couldn't work out any better considering my vacation is right after yours. Thanks in advance.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Pangaea » 08 Mar 2010, 07:10

I must have been doing something wrong with the mobile sensors then, cause they kept getting wiped out. Cleared the stage using towers instead. The bombards practically took out the whole stage, and got some experience to boot. Had a fair bit of time left, so went around taking out all bunkers for experience.

The bombards pretty much took out beta 3 too. But there was a tense moment when a ton of tanks came out from the NW base. I had to witdraw everything back to my forward base, where the support from a fair number of lancer and cannon hardpoints helped. Lost a unit, but not too bad considering the firepower they brought to the party.

I've now gotten to Beta 4 (well, still have a small hour left of beta 3 to build stuff), the one where you suggest building heaps of suicide dummies to go after the commander. Is this still the best way to beat it? Seemed like my AA in Beta 3 did allright, so is it possible to keep the planes at bay now, using 2.3 beta 11?

Do we lose the stage if the commander manages to get out of the map? I assume that's what he's trying to do. Or will he go back to the Fortress?

Great to hear you've got time to finish a few more stages btw. Looking forward to it :)

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by themousemaster » 08 Mar 2010, 07:14

Pangaea wrote:I must have been doing something wrong with the mobile sensors then, cause they kept getting wiped out. Cleared the stage using towers instead. The bombards practically took out the whole stage, and got some experience to boot. Had a fair bit of time left, so went around taking out all bunkers for experience.

The bombards pretty much took out beta 3 too. But there was a tense moment when a ton of tanks came out from the NW base. I had to witdraw everything back to my forward base, where the support from a fair number of lancer and cannon hardpoints helped. Lost a unit, but not too bad considering the firepower they brought to the party.

I've now gotten to Beta 4 (well, still have a small hour left of beta 3 to build stuff), the one where you suggest building heaps of suicide dummies to go after the commander. Is this still the best way to beat it? Seemed like my AA in Beta 3 did allright, so is it possible to keep the planes at bay now, using 2.3 beta 11?

Do we lose the stage if the commander manages to get out of the map? I assume that's what he's trying to do. Or will he go back to the Fortress?

Great to hear you've got time to finish a few more stages btw. Looking forward to it :)
I haven't tested it in 2.3, so if AA is magically better there, go ahead. Or better yet, save BEFORE launching to the away point and try both strats. As of 2.2, I found a suicide strat still preferable.

If he gets out of the SW corner of the map, you lose.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Pangaea » 08 Mar 2010, 10:21

Strange. The commander never showed his ugly head, and I lost when the time ran out. :(

Is there anything I'm supposed to do to trigger him starting to move?

With 10 minutes left I send the hovers on a suicide mission across the eastern bridge. They didn't get far though. While setting up some defences a bit back from the eastern bridge, a couple of tanks and some hardpoints were taken out. But apart from that there was no action. Planes only took one or two swipes, then I never saw them again.

That was a boring hour. Wish it was possible to speed up more than 1.5 ;)

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