General campaign discussion (split from New Walkthrough)

[Pangaea]

Now I'm really puzzled. I tried again, but the commander didn't come this time either. Has there been a change to the code so the commander just goes into the Fortress base in the NW?

This time I only set up some lancer hardpoints, out of reach of their stuff, and mine didn't fire at anything either. They came with 7 tanks across the landbridge and shot up 3 of the hardpoints and took out some hover lancers. That was all the action this mission saw. The commander was never seen.

Using an earlier save I tried to whack him with the commander crew. It worked, but I also lost a fair few guys. If hurt tanks actually bothered to track back (sometimes they are just stuck and don't move at all) and I was more careful (only had 20-25 mins in that save, so it had to be rather brute), perhaps most guys would make it back alive. But according to both this and this guide the commander should try to exit in the south. Unless he was with the crew that crossed the eastern bridge (which contradicts both guides) I've never seen the bloke.

Would anyone care to enlighten me, or do I have to break down the commander's door?

Would be great experience, but I'd need bucketloads of luck to get everybody out alive, and the commander crew will be out of place for the next stage - where they are supposed to smack up a base right off the bat.

My setup. AA wasn't needed as the planes never came back from the first attack.

Failed mission screen. Not much happened.

[themousemaster]

Now I'm really puzzled. I tried again, but the commander didn't come this time either. Has there been a change to the code so the commander just goes into the Fortress base in the NW?

This time I only set up some lancer hardpoints, out of reach of their stuff, and mine didn't fire at anything either. They came with 7 tanks across the landbridge and shot up 3 of the hardpoints and took out some hover lancers. That was all the action this mission saw. The commander was never seen.

You said they came across your landbridge and engaged your hardpoints.

If any of the units that crossed were the commander's, that was the trigger. If a single one of his attached units takes a single HP in damage, he goes NW and camps there. That said, what would make him and his group try to cross the eastern bridge instead of the western one I don't know, unless you had the west one completely blocked by buildings.

[Djoe]

The commander gets hung up in some buildings between the two bases. You have to take out a few of the defenses in the eastern base and then go to the northwest of the eastern base and kill him where he's hung up. He'll be hung up just to the east of the western base. One time I took out both bases until I found him which cost me a lot of units. Since then I cross the eastern bridge, take out a few defenses, heal my tanks and then go get the commander.

[Pangaea]

As you can (barely) see from the screenshot, there is nothing blocking the western bridge. I didn't attack the tanks until they had crossed the eastern bridge, which is why they manage to take out 3 towers before I stopped them, so nobody got away. Guess he too is stuck up north then

Quite like the fact the planes tend to get stuck there, but the commander is much worse. Will have to bring in all the guns then and hope I can take him out without losing a lot of men. They have a gazillion lancer tanks, and when/if they come out en masse it's Project: Slaughter.

[kringled]

For me, the commander seems to get stuck just outside the entrance to the eastern base. If you keep bringing troops up there to attack the base itself, the commander often seems to notice you and come down after your groups.
The VTOLs seem to mostly hang up on the buildings; this time through (with Python Lancers on hover propulsion) I was able to not lose a unit to the first set of VTOLS (by keeping the group moving, the lancer damage was spread across several units).

Keith

[Pangaea]

I tried again yesterday after writing the last post, and it was just as you describe there kringled and Djoe. He was stuck on some buildings outside the western wall of the eastern base. When I started attacking the base he came down to join the fight at some point. As the planes got stuck in the buildings and the western base kept out of my hair, I thankfully managed to get everybody out alive. Except the hovers which were suicided.

Was much harder to get everyone to survive on the next mission, as that nasty artillery keeps killing tanks. Coupled with tanks getting "stuck" and not moving at all when they should be rushing back to the repair pad, instructions reverting back to "Do or Die" and somewhat poor pathfinding makes playing very frustrating at times. I'm checking instructions every so often, and seemingly at random it reverts back to "Do or Die". Anybody know why this is happening?

[themousemaster]

I don't wish to sound discourteous... but when next week come around, I plan on continuing my guide in this thread, which would interfere with all these BETA discussions... if this chat is going to go on much longer, any chance you could start a new thread about it?

[Hammerle]

Hi Folks,

I hava a great problem with the Alpha 11 Mission.
The two bases in the south and the base north east are down.
When I try now to move from the middle to the west base or from north east to the west a flying carrier ship appear and take the artifact away and the mission is lost.
I can see no way to stop the ship.
I also try to rush in the middle of the map to kill any tank who wants to drive to the middle base.
Then I destroy the bases in the south and in the northeast.
With the same result.
When I come to close to the the middle base then appear the ship and the mission ist lost.
I am using the last version 2.2.4 of WZ2100.

Best regards,
Hammerle

[kringled]

I tried again yesterday after writing the last post, and it was just as you describe there kringled and Djoe. He was stuck on some buildings outside the western wall of the eastern base. When I started attacking the base he came down to join the fight at some point. As the planes got stuck in the buildings and the western base kept out of my hair, I thankfully managed to get everybody out alive. Except the hovers which were suicided.

Was much harder to get everyone to survive on the next mission, as that nasty artillery keeps killing tanks. Coupled with tanks getting "stuck" and not moving at all when they should be rushing back to the repair pad, instructions reverting back to "Do or Die" and somewhat poor pathfinding makes playing very frustrating at times. I'm checking instructions every so often, and seemingly at random it reverts back to "Do or Die". Anybody know why this is happening?

Not entirely sure; I've heard that it may happen when a unit can't retreat for long enough that somehow it decides to go back to Do or Die to avoid bogging down forever. On Beta 5 (fortunately, it's the only time that the enemy has long-range artillery and you don't) my tactics were based around the fact that ripple rockets have a long reload time. Therefore, after a launch happens, you have a short interval to get something done where you're only taking howitzer fire, which is less damaging in the numbers present in that base. One time, as described in the walkthrough, I used mortar pits as throwaways. The second time through, I either took the artillery fire in my main group (tracked pythons for the most part) and made sure that my path was such that the damaged unit had a good path for retreat just after taking fire, or I took it in my secondary group (hover pythons with lancers and bunker busters); in this group, by keeping them moving and the speeds high, you can spread the artillery damage over a few units. Potentially by using just one unit you might be able to avoid it almost entirely, but then you won't be able to have much impact on the enemy base with this group. I did lose one unit in this group this way, but none in the main group.

Keith

[kringled]

Hi Folks,

I hava a great problem with the Alpha 11 Mission.
The two bases in the south and the base north east are down.
When I try now to move from the middle to the west base or from north east to the west a flying carrier ship appear and take the artifact away and the mission is lost.
I can see no way to stop the ship.
I also try to rush in the middle of the map to kill any tank who wants to drive to the middle base.
Then I destroy the bases in the south and in the northeast.
With the same result.
When I come to close to the the middle base then appear the ship and the mission ist lost.
I am using the last version 2.2.4 of WZ2100.

Best regards,
Hammerle

I think your group is still moving too slowly. As outlined in the walkthrough, your only real chance is to intercept the group in that deep valley, which means that as soon as your first transport load lands, they need to be moving to that valley and bypassing the scavenger bases. If you're not close to the valley intersection when you get the cutscene that the NP has retrieved the artifact, you will probably be too late.

Keith

[kringled]

One more note on Beta 5: Just destroying the enemy HQ will not, unfortunately, do as much as one might hope to lower artillery fire. Inside the base, but well away from the edge, they have a VTOL strike sensor; at least when I play, these seem to function as normal sensors for artillery emplacements (but not mobile artillery).

One random note on Beta 1: If you recycle units at the end of the alpha-beta transition, the experience of those units will show up in the 5 combat units that are on Beta base before your first transport lands.

Keith

[mcbask]

I don't wish to sound discourteous... but when next week come around, I plan on continuing my guide in this thread, which would interfere with all these BETA discussions... if this chat is going to go on much longer, any chance you could start a new thread about it?

i agree.

i also have some things to say bout this level (Beta 4)

first time i play this level i use themousemaster's suggestion of waiting south for the commander group, but none come till it's time over. few times i tried again until i get bored and use godmode cheat. it seems the vtols always (or nearly always) get stuck at the northern buildings after one attack run, while the commander group stuck at the eastern or western building.

I wonder if there is a missing "waypoint" for the commander group. Whatsoever, the vtols too should not get stuck at the buildings. Either the northern building should have an empty space or the insertion/extraction should be moved away..

[themousemaster]

One more note on Beta 5: Just destroying the enemy HQ will not, unfortunately, do as much as one might hope to lower artillery fire. Inside the base, but well away from the edge, they have a VTOL strike sensor; at least when I play, these seem to function as normal sensors for artillery emplacements (but not mobile artillery).

One random note on Beta 1: If you recycle units at the end of the alpha-beta transition, the experience of those units will show up in the 5 combat units that are on Beta base before your first transport lands.

Keith

I did not know that. Nice find.

[Pangaea]

Not entirely sure; I've heard that it may happen when a unit can't retreat for long enough that somehow it decides to go back to Do or Die to avoid bogging down forever. On Beta 5 (fortunately, it's the only time that the enemy has long-range artillery and you don't) my tactics were based around the fact that ripple rockets have a long reload time. Therefore, after a launch happens, you have a short interval to get something done where you're only taking howitzer fire, which is less damaging in the numbers present in that base. One time, as described in the walkthrough, I used mortar pits as throwaways. The second time through, I either took the artillery fire in my main group (tracked pythons for the most part) and made sure that my path was such that the damaged unit had a good path for retreat just after taking fire, or I took it in my secondary group (hover pythons with lancers and bunker busters); in this group, by keeping them moving and the speeds high, you can spread the artillery damage over a few units. Potentially by using just one unit you might be able to avoid it almost entirely, but then you won't be able to have much impact on the enemy base with this group. I did lose one unit in this group this way, but none in the main group.

Keith

I tried to set up a similar tactic south of the base as to the east on Beta 5, but due to the layout it didn't work as well. Think I lost one guy, but got it sorted in the end. Difficult to get everybody out alive as it's just raining hell all the time. And due to the bottleneck and difficulty in getting other units to take fire while the damaged ones halt away you need some luck for all to survive.

Beta 6 was a cakewalk as we have artillery superiority. Only did a small test try on Beta 7, and it seems terribly difficult. If it's going to be raining artillery here too non-stop, I can't imagine it's possible to get everybody out alive. Wonder what will come in the main base in the end though. Have probably spent 60-70k on various defences there now

As to the defaulting back to Do or Die. It may be that this happens when units are stuck and can't get back to the repair bay. But it has happened without taking damages too. In the beginning of a map, where they may just be moving about a little, I suddenly find they are back on Do or Die. It's very strange, and incredibly annoying.

[kringled]

For Beta 7, you can vastly improve the artillery situation over beta 5, as you now have long range artillery yourself. This allows you to use counterbattery sensors to target the enemy artillery. My personal tactic for the very start of the level was to bring two VTOL Bunker Busters in my first load in. The first thing they do is take out the enemy sensor tower that can spot the area just south of your LZ, and then you have a much wider space available to you to set up in without being spotted by the enemy artillery. You will take fire when nearing the entrance to their plateau base, but if you have a properly placed CB turret or tower, you can use that to direct artillery (either emplacements or mobile units) to take out the artillery, and allow your group that has taken fire to retreat and just hold off enemy ground forces if need be until at least some of the enemy artillery is suppressed.

Keith