General campaign discussion (split from New Walkthrough)

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Vibonacci
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General campaign discussion (split from New Walkthrough)

Post by Vibonacci »

Split from: viewtopic.php?p=50389#p50389

In the beginning of gamma 3 all my experienced units I had transported to the LZ of gamma 2 are gone...Is this normal?

greet,

vib
KukY
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by KukY »

Vibonacci wrote:In the beginning of gamma 3 all my experienced units I had transported to the LZ of gamma 2 are gone...Is this normal?
You will get them back in Beta 5 or something like that.
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Zarel
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Zarel »

Gamma 5, you mean? ;)
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by KukY »

Zarel wrote:Gamma 5, you mean? ;)
Beta, Gamma, I don't care, I am sick of anything that associates with maths.

Hey, that sounds good. :cool:
3drts
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by 3drts »

Vibonacci wrote:In the beginning of gamma 3 all my experienced units I had transported to the LZ of gamma 2 are gone...Is this normal?

greet,

vib
That wasn't an LZ.... that was a mountain valley that would shield them from the blast.
They have a long way to go over rough terrain to make it back to your base.
I'm guessing the transport couldn't find them after the nuke went off.

You'll see them again, they'll find you some friends before they can make it back to your main base (and I am not being sarcastic when I say friends) :)
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The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by kringled »

Since I just finished playing through this, the units show up again at the start of gamma 6.

Lots of thanks to themousemaster for putting this together; it was a big help for getting me started and less frustrated by alpha 5. Seeing how you approached things was a big help for learning how to get through bits.

I have a few random comments about some of the missions as compared to how themousemaster played it:
Alpha 10: I had a NP transport landing cyborgs on the plateau south of my base; in the guide I see that there are either units or guard structures on that plateau, so maybe those prevented the landing.
Beta 4: I used python hover lancers/bunker busters with a commander (also hover) and hit and run tactics. The vtols hung up on the buildings as in the guide; but the enemy commander also got hung up on buildings just outside the eastermost Collective base. In one of my two playthroughs, no troops ever made it to the southwestern part of the map, and in the other, a string of tanks and cyborgs showed up there but just sat inactive, presumably waiting for the commander who never made it.
Beta 7: I brought along a couple of bunker buster VTOLs in my first transport load, and used them to take out the collective sensor that spots the near LC area. With that down (fairly quickly), getting the LZ area secured seemed to go a bit easier than described in the guide.
Beta - Evacuate:
With extensive preparations as described in the guide, I really did feel like I could hold out near indefinitely against the collective units, were it not for the getting nuked part of things ;) I did bring up a few trucks to rebuild structures at the front line, mostly just to keep myself busy while waiting for the transport to show back up.


I have some questions about the late gamma stages:

Any recommendations on how to prepare for gamma 7 in gamma 6? I've played just a few seconds of gamma 7, and the lasat hits seem to be fairly disruptive.

I'm also trying to figure out how to upgrade my units; I've been using Pythons (rather than Tigers) for my heavy battle units, as I don't really care for the slower Tigers. (A 30% decrease in speed for a 10% increase in hits doesn't seem worthwhile to me). However, the Nexus medium body matches Pythons for hits and overall armor, slightly beats it for speed for most of the turrets I've looked at, and significantly beats it for thermal armor. So I'm thinking I'll upgrade most of my units to the Nexus medium body for now. However, now that I have needler, flashlight, and Scourge missle, which should I use to replace my existing HC, assault gun, and TK units? I'm thinking that the Scourge might be worthwhile, as it's a bit less than TK on damage but better on ROF and a lot better on range, but I'm more inclined to wait for the higher grade laser/rail guns, as right now they only do well on range but not damage or ROF.
Any opinions here?
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by themousemaster »

Opinions? Oh, I'll GIVE you opinions... :P

Flashlight, due to it's damage type, would be the replacement for the AssaultGun. as of 2.2, you should probably make the switch immediately (back in the day, the AG performed equally to it until the Pulse Laser arrived)

I tend to trade out the TK for scourge immediately; due to being "missiles", the scourge will actually be quite a bit weaker than the TK for a while, but the increased range is nothing to be scoffed at. Also, I've often had TK's "unable to fire" at targets in range for whatever reason, which is a real buzzkill when trying to... well, kill.

As for the HC, don't replace it with the Needlegun. Wait for the Railgun.

And yes, when I do finally get around to the gamma6 writeup, you'll see my... "preparations". If you thought EVACUATE was loaded... as for the LASSAT, the best thing to know about it is, while you'll be dealing with it for the next few stages, each stage has a "minimum axis" of firing... said another way, there is an invisible line drawn east-to-west in each stage it's active in that it will not go below. Knowing that line can make each next stage's prep easier.
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by 3drts »

I would field Scourge as soon as possible, there won't be a better weapon for your main battle tanks in the rocket line: sure you'll get angel missile artillery, and archangel artillery on the last mission, but Scourge is the best replacement for rockets you will get, once the damage is UG'd it will kick arse, and its already got a good ROF.
Needle: wait for rails
Flashlight: eh, use it or lose it, doesn't make much difference.
Once you get pulse though, definitely get rid of AG or flash.

Cannons actually can be useful the whole game, but I would swap them for rails if you use them at all (now that rockets upgrade - they didn't used to do that - I see little use for cannons, and that rockets may be useful the whole game as well)
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Zarel »

3drts wrote:Cannons actually can be useful the whole game, but I would swap them for rails if you use them at all (now that rockets upgrade - they didn't used to do that - I see little use for cannons, and that rockets may be useful the whole game as well)
Well, missiles have always upgraded, so I don't see any difference for T3.
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by mcbask »

Beta: Evacuate ?
no need much defence against ground assault.
i use simple tank-traps (L shaped) to the north and southeast and they never breach, as long as there's no other structure or unit in range to tempt the Collective to fire..
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by kringled »

I ended up switching to Scourge at gamma 6 (as soon as available). I switched one of my squads (I've been using two, one on Tiger-Hovers for lighter hit and run type attacks, and the other is currently on tracked Retribution) to Flashlights. As of the end of gamma 7, all AGs got switched to pulse, and I swapped the HCs out for rails, as recommended. One thing that I'm starting to realize about weapons with a superior range (particularly as we change from things in the 7-9 range to the 12-16 range) is that in commander-led group combat, they work better than the raw numbers might suggest (based on damage, armor, and ROF). This is because with the shorter range weapons, as the group goes over 8-10 units, some number of them are not in range because they are at the back of the group and have to push forward. It's particularly problematic for HC units in mixed groups, as they tend to be slower but are shorter range than the AGs and Lancers/TKs.

I'll have to look for the E-W line in gamma 8 and make sure some key structures are S of it. From my first pass through experience, it's not that far up from the southern edge, so you don't have a lot of room to put things in. In gamma 7, I basically abandoned everything north of the line that opened up in gamma 6, and just kept a small # of trucks up there to rebuild oil derricks. Energy is not that limiting on these late gamma maps, and the # of artillery structures that I have at the start of gamma 8 could be described as rather alarming.
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by kringled »

mcbask wrote:Beta: Evacuate ?
no need much defence against ground assault.
i use simple tank-traps (L shaped) to the north and southeast and they never breach, as long as there's no other structure or unit in range to tempt the Collective to fire..
Interesting. Definitely a low cost, fast way to get it done. It does take a bit more explicit advantage of the AI's limitations than the lots of ground defenses solution I used. Mine took a lot more of my time (in building), but I had the energy to spare and then some, and it was a bit more entertaining while waiting for the transport to return.
I wonder, if you have a sensor tower in just the right location, if the incoming ground troops can be closed in with trank traps as you suggest, and still be subject to long range bombardment. I may have to play with that.

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Vibonacci
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Vibonacci »

What about retribution? (nexus medium body). Is it better then Tiger?
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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by kringled »

Vibonacci wrote:What about retribution? (nexus medium body). Is it better then Tiger?
At least at the time that I got it, slightly better armor and thermal armor, much better speed for tracked platforms, fewer hitpoints. Like many of these things, a bit of a tradeoff, depending on which things you prefer. Heavy cannon on a retribution body works (and is reasonably fast), but is kind of goofy looking.
My numbers are mostly based on the data in the design mode of the game, as the numbers in the guide online I think refer more to the skirmish/MP game mode, rather than the campaign. Thankfully in campaign mode, the design screen pauses the game, as I've spent quite a bit of time in there puzzling over how to put units together.

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Re: The *NEW* Warzone guide. Done with RED units V2.2RC1

Post by Vibonacci »

I haven't done any math but after trying it ingame it feels the added speed of Retribution in comparison to tiger is a big advantadge especially since the higher armor counterfits the small loss in body points.

Another Q: why don't people use assault cannon when they get it in mid beta campaign instead of heavy cannon while it has higher DPS (ROFxDAMAGE ; range the same) and lower weight?
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