too many enemy units

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nikita

too many enemy units

Post by nikita » 15 Jun 2019, 17:23

there are too many enemy units in 3.3.0. in last mission of the alpha campaign. is this normsl to be attacked by groups of 10 tanks? groups are attacking one by one in a normal mode. I watched video with another versions: there are very less enemy units.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by Forgon » 15 Jun 2019, 18:29

nikita wrote:
15 Jun 2019, 17:23
there are too many enemy units in 3.3.0. in last mission of the alpha campaign. is this normsl to be attacked by groups of 10 tanks? groups are attacking one by one in a normal mode. I watched video with another versions: there are very less enemy units.
It you managed to share a savegame, we could judge more easily whether
the enemy is too strong or your tactical skills too weak.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by alfred007 » 15 Jun 2019, 19:11

Yup, Alpha 12 is hard. It is intentional that you get attacked by so many units. Several players were complaining that Warzone doesn't give them a competition. And Alpha 12 is a competition. There are 6 factories that get activated by different trigger areas. And an NP transporter is bringing in reinforcements. Every transport includes 8 NP units. In combination with the produced units, it is possible that you get attacked by 10 or more NP units at the same time.

To give you some helpful hints we need to know:
What difficulty are you playing?
What strategy and unit types are you using?
Where do you get stuck?

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alfred007
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Re: too many enemy units

Post by alfred007 » 15 Jun 2019, 22:37

This is the wrong thread for this topic. It should be moved into "Game related Discussions". Either into "Technical Help / Troubleshooting" or "Campaign".

Done by moderator

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by NoQ » 02 Jul 2019, 06:56

If you're comparing to 3.1 or 3.2, this may be because the regression in group management is now fixed. Groups of units no longer arrive one-by-one, but keep their formation.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by alfred007 » 02 Jul 2019, 22:11

NoQ wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 06:56
If you're comparing to 3.1 or 3.2, this may be because the regression in group management is now fixed. Groups of units no longer arrive one-by-one, but keep their formation.
Only if they are all moving at the same speed. Cyborgs will, of course, keep their formation but reinforcements or different units from a factory can split into smaller groups. But they will start all at the same time so that the time gap between their arrival is way smaller than it was before. If you try to win Alpha 12 only by moving over the ground in the middle you will fail. When you arrive at the NP tank traps there are four out of six factories activated and NP reinforcements are coming. Those units will be reproduced too fast to destroy them all in time if you just want to move forward through the middle.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by NoQ » 03 Jul 2019, 06:04

I mean, i ported NullBot's regroup code into libcampaign in order to replace the old formation code that was removed, and therefore, assuming it's actually used (it definitely is for the early missions that i converted), it should keep units in the same group together even if they have different speeds. Like, the majority of the group will wait for the slower units to catch up and the faster units will return back every once in a while, so that to wait for the majority of the group to catch up.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by alfred007 » 03 Jul 2019, 16:00

NoQ wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 06:04
I mean, i ported NullBot's regroup code into libcampaign in order to replace the old formation code that was removed, and therefore, assuming it's actually used (it definitely is for the early missions that i converted), it should keep units in the same group together even if they have different speeds. Like, the majority of the group will wait for the slower units to catch up and the faster units will return back every once in a while, so that to wait for the majority of the group to catch up.
I know that the produced Scavengers in the early Alpha missions are moving at different speeds. The wheeled Scavengers are faster than the legged one. At the moment I'm testing Forgon's unit limit patch and will have a look at it if I'm right or if I noticed something wrong and will give you feedback about it.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by alfred007 » 03 Jul 2019, 21:20

@NoQ

I used the deity cheat during a test in Alpha 08 to watch the produced NP units if they are moving as a group or not. Every unit is moving with their own speed and no one is waiting for the slower units. One of the two factories is producing tracked and half-tracked units and the faster half-tracked units ran forward and attacked me while the tracked units are still out of firing range. Just first feedback, I will still have a look at it.

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Re: too many enemy units

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 03 Jul 2019, 22:32

I rarely opted to use regrouping unless I knew for certain the group was fast (wheels, cyborgs, hovers, light weapons) and their routes were along a relatively flat plane. And most of the Alpha/Beta I didn't bother, nor did anyone notice or care much. Scavengers can all regroup, though, since they are rather fast.

Slow units are not worth regrouping and, often, some groups can't accomplish their intended goal if doing so. Alpha 11 artifact stealing group and the Beta 4 commander group to name a few. Regrouping is impractical for most of Beta campaign due to the plethora of obstacles (like buildings and getting stuck dancing around them), and the fact there are so many (very) slow cannons and tracked units everywhere. Lancers rejoice.

VTOLs can regroup, but it looked weird and it forces them to worry too much on regrouping especially if one of those fat HEAP bombers is in the group. At that point they just become AA weapon fodder and never do anything meaningful to the player.

Regrouping can choose impossible to move to coordinates (forever stalling the group unless "nudged") or coordinates close but far to path to (top of a mountain, but need to take a long winding path from the bottom, and likely repeats running up and down again a few times to reach the "average point", as seen with one Gamma-2 hover group near the safe zone in the mountains, and other missions like Alpha 6/7 near the home maps SE quadrant). The first is trivial, but the second sounds daunting. Measuring the z coordinate difference between units and the chosen average may reduce that, I guess.

But that is not related to this. Maybe jack up the Alpha 12 factory timers 30-50 seconds each and that'll make things more calm. I've played Alpha 12 on Normal and it's still relatively easy to beat, just not on Hard/Insane.

Edit: BTW, the author was a guest. So they can't reply anymore unless they feel the need to make an account.

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