How do you micromanage attached units?

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olivier_armstrong
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How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by olivier_armstrong » 10 Jun 2013, 23:38

TL;DR: What key combinations and control groups do you use to control units attached to sensors and commanders effectively?

I'm a veteran Starcraft player (Starcraft 1) who just rediscovered WZ2100. In Starcraft 1, you could only select 12 units at a time so you'd need 6+ control groups for a late-game army. You'd have to hit 1a2a3a4a5a6a every time you want to move your army. I'm used to doing that multiple times to get my whole army into position and to attack, then micromanaging rectangles of units or individual control groups during the fight (e.g. to improve the shape, kite short range units, focus fire on dangerous and/or squishy units). A lot of the tactics SHOULD work great with WZ2100 units (e.g. surrounds, firing arc on a choke point, inching up artillery, damaged units in back), which are smarter than Starcraft units. But I can't get WZ2100 units to respond.

My issue is controlling attached units. Just like in Starcraft, I can 123 attack, but I can't do anything with the units afterwards! They're so slow to respond when I tell the commander to do something, and if I detach them, then I have to hunt for that commander afterwards to reattach. Here are some examples:


Maneuver I want to do:
The classic 1a2a3a. Tanks, move up. Skirmishers, flank 'em. Sensor and artillery move up. Everyone attack... now!

What happens:
Tanks do move up. Skirmishers do flank 'em. But sensor is dangerously close to the fight and artillery is waiting waaay out of range and only finally moves up when I tell the sensor unit to attack. They spend half the fight moving their slow, squishy butts.


Maneuver I want to do:
Damaged units: retreat just behind the front line. Waiting repair doods, do your thing. Oh no, there's a traffic jam? No problem, I select a rectangle of units in the way and move them back too. Or I part the line (move a rectangle on each side of the path over a bit) to let hurt guy through. I do it extra early and give them extra room because WZ2100 units are slower at turning.

What happens:
Damaged units retreat, run right past my mobile repair and get killed instead trying to reach a repair facility. Or worse, damaged units "retreat" by running forward INTO the towers I was staying just out of range of, taking a path back to repair that I didn't even know was there. And oh hello no if the commander gets into the yellow, all of his units will get confused. I am totally fine with moving damaged units individually back (so their full health friends take fire instead).


Maneuver I want to do:
Lancer hit & run. Fast lancer units move forward, fire a volley into those tanks. Retreat while you reload. Healthy lancers to the front; damaged lancers to the back. Repeat until tanks are dead.

What happens:
They turn around soooo slowly when attached to a commander.


Maneuver I want to do:
Just before the battle, split that ball formation in 2 or 3 to form a line. Attack in a stronger line formation.

What happens:
I can't select units attached to a commander without detaching them. It takes forever to find damn commander and click on him while he's moving.


Maneuver I want to do:
Stay at your maximum range so only the front row of towers can hit you. Inch up after each row of towers is dead.

What happens:
Commander stays out of range, everybody else charges in. Can't select units individually to manually make a ring at the edge of tower range.


Maneuver I want to do:
OMFG RETREAT! DON'T RUN INTO THAT FORTRESS!

What happens:
Commander slowly turns around. Units continue suicidal charge. Then the units slowly turn around. A bunch of them die.


Maneuver I want to do:
While my beefy tanks keep their tanks busy, squishy skirmishers dart around their towers and take out those mortars.

What happens:
Skirmisher commander runs around the towers. Skirmishers all run INTO the towers and die. Damaged skirmishers retreat through the towers and die.


Right now, I'm starting to think commanders and promoted units are more trouble than they're worth. What's the point in getting an armor buff if you take more damage from stupidity? What's the point in having a speed buff if you have to wait for the commander to move before you start moving? What's the point in retreating when damaged if you're just going to get yourself killed?

How do you all micro your armies attached to commanders and sensors in the campaign? (Does anyone use commanders in skirmish?) What key combinations and control groups do you use?

Cyp
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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by Cyp » 11 Jun 2013, 00:01

The main use of commanders is to confuse the enemy. Send a commander to attack on one side, and the enemy will be too busy staring at your commander and wondering why you built a commander to notice your real attack on the other side.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by Terminator » 11 Jun 2013, 07:59

Cyp wrote:The main use of commanders is to confuse the enemy. Send a commander to attack on one side, and the enemy will be too busy staring at your commander and wondering why you built a commander to notice your real attack on the other side.
Dont be jokying Cyp :)
olivier_armstrong wrote:My issue is controlling attached units. Just like in Starcraft, I can 123 attack, but I can't do anything with the units afterwards! They're so slow to respond when I tell the commander to do something, and if I detach them, then I have to hunt for that commander afterwards to reattach.
unfortunately commanders are the most buggy units in-game for now (IMHO) & useless. Don't recommend to use them at all. As for sensors & attached units - there is no way to control them without been unattached, cause no one didnt offer a better solution to control those units. However mobile artillery ain't so "mobile" so I suggest to lock them on turret sensors.

& if you have good suggestions to make this parts of game - better - feel free to make a topic for that with your idea for improvement how this all should work & act. :geek:
Death is the only way out... sh*t Happens !

Russian-speaking Social network Group http://vk.com/warzone2100

Per
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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by Per » 11 Jun 2013, 09:25

As was said, commanders are (and have really always been) mostly broken.

There are many ways in which Warzone is inferior to other RTS games in terms of your ability to micro-manage your units. This is quite unfortunate, and something we should address soon. Faster droid turning, better command queueing, and improved control hotkeys come to mind.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by Rman Virgil » 11 Jun 2013, 09:47

.

Much has come up over the last 14 years on fixing Commanders and vastly improving microing combat groups in the heat of battle.

The following 2 threads aggregate most of it:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3187&hilit=commanders

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9119&hilit=Commanders

Changing the Command scheme and UI widgets is unavoidable and not trivial. Camera scheme & mini-map too.

EDIT: It very much deserves mentioning that another big obstacle over the years to realizing progress in all the above, has been WZ Script. But with the creation and development of the JS API a giant step foward has been taken in being able to fix Commanders and greatly improving combat group microing in the heat of battle so that a whole domain of very interesting multi-vector, coordinated, velocity maneuver tacs will become feasible that are at present well nigh impossible - along with grand strats involving controlling more than one center of gravity.


* Another more recent thread on Commanders that addresses both possible improvements but also very key Meta Design considerations can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10364&hilit=commanders
.
Last edited by Rman Virgil on 15 Jun 2013, 22:12, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by NoQ » 11 Jun 2013, 19:15

Terminator wrote:Dont be jokying Cyp :)
Please keep jokying Cyp (:
Terminator wrote:(IMHO) & useless. Don't recommend to use them at all.
We're in Campaign subforum, and i must admit campaign is one of the places where they are actually useful.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by SexViperWheels » 10 Aug 2013, 02:22

NoQ wrote:
Terminator wrote:(IMHO) & useless. Don't recommend to use them at all.
We're in Campaign subforum, and i must admit campaign is one of the places where they are actually useful.
Here's the downside to commander turrets. You can't effectively use them with repair facilities because once the COMMANDER is told to retreat, his entire squad suddenly becomes lost and follows the commander to the facility and suddenly 1 tank cost you your whole offensive. You have to either set the commander to do or die and EVERY TIME a unit is injured you'd have to likely slow game speed, manually de attach it, send it to repair then afterwards re attach it, or you'd have to run mobile repair turrets which tend to run right into enemy bases or in front of the command turret. More trouble than they're worth imho.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by NoQ » 10 Aug 2013, 06:01

1 tank cost you your whole offensive
You don't understand. The experienced commander provides HUGE buff to units under its control. You really do not want to loose it, and you often really do not want to proceed with your attack without the commander.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by SexViperWheels » 10 Aug 2013, 07:46

NoQ wrote:
1 tank cost you your whole offensive
You don't understand. The experienced commander provides HUGE buff to units under its control. You really do not want to loose it, and you often really do not want to proceed with your attack without the commander.
Yeah, but is that buff really significant enough to be worth pulling back your whole group EVERY TIME the commander takes barely a quarter of his health in damage? In my eyes it doesn't seem like its worth the hassle.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by NoQ » 10 Aug 2013, 08:00

It's many times buff.

Also, microing commander to protect the commander is usually easy: units tend to go forward to cover it when you tell him to go back.

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Re: How do you micromanage attached units?

Post by SexViperWheels » 10 Aug 2013, 18:08

Well to be fair I've only seen this happen to my commanders twice before I stopped using them. When it gets low and it goes to retreat, it blocks up its group, gets stuck in front of everyone and dies. That's how it goes when I use commanders.

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