Beta 4 problem

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Beta 4 problem

Postby Pangaea » 13 Apr 2014, 08:01

This is the "catch the commander before he exits the map" mission. Has there been a change to how this plays out in the 3.1.1 update? Last time I played the game was on 2.3, and then the VTOLs usually got stuck in the buildings, as per the walkthrough by mousemaster and the videos by DarkyErinyes (maybe NoQ too, but he is so fast anyway, that perhaps they didn't have time to attack more than 2-3 times).

First, I tried sending in strong units with a good commander (to give them a higher chance to survive), plus two trucks to instantly put up a sensor tower (to get better time to spot VTOLs) and AA. They attack after maybe 1 minute though, so even with this setup (strong units and quick AA) it's pretty much impossible to have all units survive. For each swipe they tended to take out 1 unit, even later when I had littered the place with AA.

Second, I tried a totally different approach. Made 8 Python track AA and a likewise sensor, plus a truck, and hoped that would be durable enough to take out the VTOLs. No luck. For each attack one AA tank was lost, and they kept on coming (played for about 20 minutes, at which point they were still attacking). Got in bombards next to start taking down defences. VTOLs attacked them then, and 3 was lost after 2 attacks.

Was I just unlucky here, or are the VTOLs less likely to get stuck on the buildings now in 3.1.1, or do they have better survivability against AA? Since I don't want to lose many high-experienced units here, is really the best way to use green hover lancers as per mousemaster's walkthrough?

Provided the VTOLs keep coming as intended, is it simply impossible to have all your units survive?
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby montetank » 13 Apr 2014, 11:15

It is possible. I solved this mission exactly how you describes. First i send 6 high experiened python AA + 2 high experienced lancers (or 1 lancer ´+ 1 high experienced commander) + 2 trucks. The commander only, if you dont have high experienced units. I think, the commander should have the herostatus now. After destroying the enemy tower i build with one truck AA defences and 2 repairtowers. With the other truck the 2 sensortowers like mousemaster describe. Meanwhile the second load with my 10 lancer hovers (also experienced) arrived. And i moved them under the repairtowers. It is important not to attack the enemy-commander to early. I remember, that the enemy arrived at first with 2 cyborgs, trying to destroy your sensor-tower. Ignore them. Wait, that the commander comes nearer to your hover-lancers (change them earlyer to hold fire). And then, when the commander is near enough start your attack with your hovers. It is also important not to split your AA in many groups. The one truck should be able to build 3-4 AA-bunkers. But this way is only possible if you have high experience. But there is another elegant way. Watch, how NoQ solved this mission under 15 minutes. I did it in the same way in the fast campaign mod, which you can download in the addon section. NoQ lost unlucky only one unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvw6nLh2GlI
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby NoQ » 13 Apr 2014, 13:36

Did anybody try experienced lacner cyborgs on this mission? Enemy VTOLs should miss quite a lot when firing at smaller targets; probably they don't miss at all against tracked pythons (?)
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby montetank » 13 Apr 2014, 14:51

NoQ wrote:Did anybody try experienced lacner cyborgs on this mission? Enemy VTOLs should miss quite a lot when firing at smaller targets; probably they don't miss at all against tracked pythons (?)


What a great idea. I will try it immediately. I tried the cyborgs in the Alphamission with the commander which may not leave with the transporter. It must works here also. Great :)
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby Pangaea » 13 Apr 2014, 19:42

NoQ wrote:Did anybody try experienced lacner cyborgs on this mission? Enemy VTOLs should miss quite a lot when firing at smaller targets; probably they don't miss at all against tracked pythons (?)


I gave this a shot, but I found they were getting torn to shreds by mortar pits and whatnot.

montetank wrote:It is possible. I solved this mission exactly how you describes. First i send 6 high experiened python AA + 2 high experienced lancers (or 1 lancer ´+ 1 high experienced commander) + 2 trucks. The commander only, if you dont have high experienced units. I think, the commander should have the herostatus now. After destroying the enemy tower i build with one truck AA defences and 2 repairtowers. With the other truck the 2 sensortowers like mousemaster describe. Meanwhile the second load with my 10 lancer hovers (also experienced) arrived. And i moved them under the repairtowers. It is important not to attack the enemy-commander to early. I remember, that the enemy arrived at first with 2 cyborgs, trying to destroy your sensor-tower. Ignore them. Wait, that the commander comes nearer to your hover-lancers (change them earlyer to hold fire). And then, when the commander is near enough start your attack with your hovers. It is also important not to split your AA in many groups. The one truck should be able to build 3-4 AA-bunkers. But this way is only possible if you have high experience. But there is another elegant way. Watch, how NoQ solved this mission under 15 minutes. I did it in the same way in the fast campaign mod, which you can download in the addon section. NoQ lost unlucky only one unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvw6nLh2GlI


I saw that video trying to get inspired, but I'm nowhere near skilled enough to pull off something like that.

Did manage it now though, with I think the same lot you travelled out with. Last time I used the backup (professional) commander, but now I took the Hero commander, 2 trucks, a lancer tracks and 6 AA tanks. Put up some AA right away, plus the sensor tower, and they managed to shoot down the first vtols. Built sensor towers west, as per themousemaster's guide, and brought in 10 hover lancers (greens) and put them under the hero commander. Made the mistake of attacking the cyborgs that came across from the west, as I couldn't see the commander, but no big deal really as I wanted to level the place anyway.

[Edit: One detail I forgot is that right after one batch of vtols had been shot down, I pushed forward into the NE base with hover-lancers to level some stuff, and then pulled back in time for the next vtol attack, so the AA further back could deal with them. Rinse and repeat.]

Did have to reload a few times from terribad pathfinding to repair bays, unlucky salvos, and one time when I was a bit too daring with the push-retreat towards the fortress. Also built loads and LOADS of AA as we progressed, as the only way to deal with the neverending torrent of vtols is to utterly overload them with AA. Lost 3 units. Know 2 of them were lancer-borgs as I only had 8 at the end before the recycle, so one more unit died at some point (not sure which, but no hover lancers or bombards, so maybe one of the lancer tanks I brought in).

wz2100-20140413_184222-SUB_2_2.jpg
I'm counting 33 units there, including the truck and sensortank. And there might be more as the factory isn't into view yet. Dang!


The vtols kept coming until the end of the stage, so many of the 190 kills were vtols.
wz2100-20140413_184617-SUB_2_2.jpg
Lots of AA, plus more at the other side of the river.


Beta 5 is a bit of a nightmare too, with all that artillery fire from half-way across the map. Probably even harder to not lose units on that one, despite preparing pretty well.
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby montetank » 18 Apr 2014, 17:57

NoQ wrote:Did anybody try experienced lacner cyborgs on this mission? Enemy VTOLs should miss quite a lot when firing at smaller targets; probably they don't miss at all against tracked pythons (?)


It is not possible. The problem are not the Vtols but the enemy-tank killers. The screenshot shows the position how i solve this mission in the past. Two sensortowers and some repairtowers and AA-not to near to the Northeast. When i saw the enemy-commander i wait 3-6 seconds and then i attack. The cyborgs have not enough hp. The best result was to loose 2 cyborgs. All cyborgs were heros and i attach them to my commander to give them the hero + 1 status. But.... :(
Maybe with some more experience i can survive this mission without loosing an unit. But it is better with hovers.
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby Bethrezen » 29 Mar 2015, 02:24

hi

Ok first couple of things my may not be aware of on this mission

1.) The enemy vtols are coming from off screen which means as soon as you take out there HQ the vtols attacks should stop.

2.) if you quickly attack the base in the top left hand of the screen which is where the enemy commander comes from this will persuade the commander that its would be safer to stay in the base and he will not try to escape.

so how to do this mission

1.) first wave 1 experienced commander with heavy body on tracks 1 truck and 8 lancers with heavy bodies on tracks preferably with experience as well

2.) as soon as you land order 10 AAA units attach your lancers to the commander and immediately command them to move all the way to the left of the screen taking out the rocket turret along the way once the path is clear command your truck to move all the way to the left of the screen and build a repair bay in the bottom left of the screen

3.) move to the river crossing take out the hover rocket unit the scanner and the other turrets DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CROSS THE RIVER !!! because its bad bottleneck and you will get taken out unless the area has been cleared first

simply attacking the scanner and the couple of turrets that are right on the river crossing should be enough to make the commander stay in his base once you have destroyed everything that is in range of your lancers with out crossing the river pull your units all the way back to the bottom left of the screen as far as they will go because the enemy is going to be sending vtols after them so we need to buy the AAA units enough time to take them out

4.) by now your AAA units should be arriving command them to move all the way to the left of the screen and park them behind the little hill by the river crossing

5.) if like me you operate in teams of 18 units call in the other 8 AAA units 1 mobile scanner and 1 artillery unit wait for them to arrive once they do send them to the left of the screen and call in more artillery

6.) wait for the artillery to arrive once they do move them to the left of the screen and slowly and carefully move across the river taking out everything remember to keep your AAA units between you and where the enemy vtols come from unless you want to start loosing units order in more lancers so now you have a full squad

7.) now as I'm sure you have already discovered the enemy base if full of hover lancer units which will mop the floor with your units if they see you so the best way to deal with this is by letting your artillery do it its slow but hover units are lightly armored so it shouldn't take to long for your artillery to turn them in to scrap

now you may find that as you get close to there base there artillery will open up on you and start pounding your scanner which will slow you down a lot unless you do something about it so pull your scanner back until the artillery stops shooting at it then detach your commander from your lancers and move him up to where your scanner is set him to hold position and then inch him foreword until the artillery start attacking your commander leave him there to soak the fire from the artillery once your commander has the attention of the artillery move your mobile scanner back up and continue to eviscerate everything once your artillery have taken out most of there hover lancers pull your commander back for repair and pull your scanner and artillery back as well reattach your lancers to the commander and then hopefully the rest of your lancers should be arriving move them to the left of the screen attach them to the commander move across the river and flatten whats left of there base at this point you have a choice you can return to LZ and end the mission of you can take out the base at the right of the screen for more experience points and mote time to gain funds
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby montetank » 29 Mar 2015, 03:03

There are many ways to solve this mission. All you write is correct. But-there is a way to solve this mission very fast. Watch here-BTW-try out this one: http://addons.wz2100.net/238
Wait-there is a vid on youtube. As far as i know, NoQ and myself are until yet the only, who solve this mod. Cant find the vid now. Is somewhere here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_1w50A ... BCC662C440
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby nearo » 21 May 2018, 22:30

Bethrezen wrote:1.) The enemy vtols are coming from off screen which means as soon as you take out there HQ the vtols attacks should stop.


Huh, I didn't know that. Well, I knew that at some point the VTOLs stop to show up, but never knew why. Still, it is hard to take out the HQs quickly in this mission since we don't have the VTOL tech at this point in the campaign.
I'm currently stuck on this mission, because I don't want to lose any units. Those lancer VTOLs are a nightmare.
Last edited by nearo on 22 May 2018, 06:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby alfred007 » 21 May 2018, 23:00

What version do you play?
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby nearo » 22 May 2018, 06:52

alfred007 wrote:What version do you play?

2.3.9 - my video card doesn't like the newer ones... but that's another problem.
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Re: Beta 4 problem

Postby nearo » 22 May 2018, 22:43

Okay, I just managed to do it. It was tough, and maybe I needed a bit of luck to survive the first attack of the VTOLs, but after that it is doable if you have enough cash to build a bunch of AA pits - the statistics at the end of the mission said that I built 86 structures, roughly 70 of it was AA.
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