Several questions about the gameplay

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Several questions about the gameplay

Postby iap » 16 Jul 2012, 12:42

Hi guys. Maybe after answering these questions I will be less noob :stressed:
I play only Skirmish games for several reasons, the most important is the ability to pause or quit without anyone getting upset, and the ability to slow down (or speed up when needed).

So here I would like to know more. There is no particular order, just what comes in mind:
* When researching a new weapon that replaces the old one (like Bombard replaces Mortar) is there any point of continuing with upgrading the mortar? Does the new weapon from the same category benefits from that upgrade? (Same as medium cannon and small cannons upgrade, or rocket array with mini rocket upgrades and so on)
* How do I get to mortars and lancers fast?! It seems that it is taking forever to get there, but they are basic weapons. What am I missing?
* I figure that the research tree is like a "elements" game when you combine several ingredients to get the next weapon. I there any logic in this assumption?
* A big Dilemma is about replacing old vehicles with new ones. There is a big need for this, of course, but what do I do with the old ones? Do I just let them die honorably in battle? Do I recycle them and then loose temporary fire power? This is more emphasized with the commander, with in spite of all of it's problems.

This is for now.
Thanks :)
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby NoQ » 16 Jul 2012, 13:11

When researching a new weapon that replaces the old one (like Bombard replaces Mortar) is there any point of continuing with upgrading the mortar?
This is all in the Guide. For every weapon, it lists which upgrades affect it. For instance, bombards are affected by mortar upgrades, while howitzers aren't.
How do I get to mortars and lancers fast?!
This is all in the Guide. Here are the exact pre-requisites for lancers and mortars.
I figure that the research tree is like a "elements" game when you combine several ingredients to get the next weapon.
This is all in the Guide. Yes, the research tree is actually a tree.
There is a big need for this, of course, but what do I do with the old ones? Do I just let them die honorably in battle? Do I recycle them and then loose temporary fire power?
Depends on how much they can do, that is, how much they are outdated. For instance, when you have light cannon viper halftracks, and you made some machinegun viper halftracks before (some real example), those mg tanks will be quite handy in the following battles. Even though they hardly do any damage, they still have nice HP, so they can take some damage and shield cannon tanks from being harmed, while cannon tanks do heavy damage to the opponent. It is obvious that if you recycle your mg tanks in this phase, you are much more likely to loose the battle, no matter how much they are outdated. But at the point when heavy machinegun cobras start to appear these mg vipers certainly can't do much more than return half of their money. They will be most likely already dead by that time though. So it all depends. Last but not least, there's no point in recycling anything as long as you have a money surplus. Recycling makes sense only when you are on zero money.
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby iap » 16 Jul 2012, 13:28

Thank you. :)
You keep writing that all these answers are in the guide, and I did read it. But I'm trying to figure out a general guideline, because it is also written in the guide that there is no need to learn the entire research tree by heart... In any case in the game I keep forgetting all the pre-requisites of all the weapons I like. This is why I asked the elements question.

About the commander. Is it a good choice to wait until I have a heavy body to build a commander, or should I build it when I can? Because replacing a commander to keep it's is very difficult.

By the way, if you don't send old units to recycle, does this means that you're not concerned with the experience and rank of the units?
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby NoQ » 16 Jul 2012, 15:46

In multiplayer, commanders and experience mean almost nothing. These do have a meaning in skirmish though, but still relatively little compared to the Campaign (which is off topic).
But I'm trying to figure out a general guideline, because it is also written in the guide that there is no need to learn the entire research tree by heart... In any case in the game I keep forgetting all the pre-requisites of all the weapons I like. This is why I asked the elements question.
Machineguns require mg damage upgrades, assault guns require three rof upgrades, TAG requires neural synapse as well, hurricane requires tmg, whirlwind requires AG, some of AA gun upgrades require a lot of cannon or rocket research (!!). Nice cannons require damage upgrades, HPV requires 1st cannon accuracy, AC requires 1st cannon rof, railgun requires hpv, neural synapse, and 7 cannon damage upgrades (out of 9), while further cannon ROF or accuracy upgrades don't lead anywhere. Flamers require flamer damage upgrades, plasmite requires research upgrades as well. Lancers and tank killers require rocket damage and accuracy upgrades, scourges require tank killers and neural synapse; ripples, apart from MRA, require CB tower, which relies on first mortar accuracy upgrade and first sensor upgrade. Lasers require neural synapse mk2 and sensor upgrades only. Mortars require one cannon damage upgrade, bombards require one alloy upgrade as well (!!), howitzers require mortar damage upgrades, some howitzer upgrades require a lot of cannon damage research (!!), bomb upgrades and heap bombs require second mortar damage. Thermite bombs require inferno damage mk2 (while mk1 is enough for inferno itself, and inferno itself isn't required for thermite bombs). Cannon fort requires a lot of cannon damage and wall upgrades, you'd have to research second engineering upgrade at some point; rocket forts require rocket upgrades (a bit more than necessary for the TK) instead of cannon upgrades. All ROF upgrades rely on first production upgrade, all accuracy upgrades require synaptic link. All alloy upgrades require research module. Better bodies are unlocked by researching alloys, heat armor and engines. Tiger requires better alloys, while Mantis requires better engines, hovers and vtols require 2nd and 3rd upgrade respectively. Satellite stuff requires all possible sensor towers and sensor upgrades and full research upgrades, auto-repair requires neural synapse mk2. Borg alloys and heat armor is separate from tank alloys and heat armor. Superborgs require a lot of borg alloys.

I think that's close to as much as i remember during a multiplayer game (written it without consulting the guide right now, and i'm pretty sure about everything i wrote, feel free to correct me). Things marked with (!!) are seriously weird and unexpected, and i think it's a complete list of them; apart from that, there are no such heavy cross-line interactions, every weapon line lives on its own, so it's easy to remember most of the stuff.

The early-game tech tree is pretty much to be memorized (until the three modules are available, for example, and how to get the basic early weapons).

Try learning these one by one. For instance, try to practice producing MRA cobra hovers in under 12 minutes (from T1 no bases with 2 trucks at the start); it's one of the common multiplayer strategies, specially in FFA where you can bet on having some time to tech up.

That's it for the research tree, i'll cover what upgrades affect what some other time (:
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby iap » 16 Jul 2012, 17:01

Tank you :)

Ok one more question. I looked at the stats of the body type. Apparently the basic (grey) heavy body is the strongest. At least it is stronger then the heavy yellow and heavy green (sorry, can't remember their names). Also with all the armor upgrades and the right weapon the tanks are extremely strong. So what is the benefit of wasting time and money in researching other body types, and then replacing them?
If it is speed, the hover is fast enough (but weeker).
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby NoQ » 16 Jul 2012, 17:26

Even slight armor increase Tigers offer can make a huge difference against assault guns (armor affects high-ROF weapons much more than low-ROF weapons of same standard DPS). The same applies to Mantis that are more effective against flamers. Since in almost every game you either encounter only machineguns or only flamers, switching bodies brings quite some benefit.

This is still a much lighter effect than a propulsion choice. For instance, you absolutely can't switch to hovers when fighting machineguns. So you choose propulsion first, and then choose your body branch independently of the propulsion choice.

Note that developing new bodies is relatively easy and cheap. Body research is cheap compared to the alloy research that leads to it, which is necessary anyway, even if you don't try to invent new bodies. Engine upgrades are underpowered though, but they are necessary to research VTOLs and Hovers.
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby NoQ » 16 Jul 2012, 18:25

As for upgrades applicability, we have the following weapon branches, each of which uses the same dedicated set of upgrades and is unaffected by other branches upgrades:

  • Machineguns (including assault guns; single mg icon)
  • Machinegun AA (hurricane and whirlwind; hurricane icon)
  • Flamers (including plasmite; different flamer icons there)
  • Cannons (including plasma cannon and flak aa cannon; light cannon icon)
  • Rockets (minipods, lancers, tks, mras, ripples, bunker buster, sunburst aa; minipod and lancer icons)
  • Mortars (including the incendiary one - you're right, flamer upgrades don't affect it; mortar and bombard icons)
  • Howitzers (including the incendiary one; howitzer icon)
  • Bombs (all 5 of them including the incendiary bombs; heap bomb icon)
  • Lasers (including the stormbringer aa; pulse laser icon)
  • Missiles (scourges, seraphs, archangels, SAMs; scourge icon)
  • Rail guns (needles, gauss cannons, forts; needle gun icon)
  • No upgrades exist for Nexus Link and EMP (including EMP mortars and EMP bombs) and laser satellites

Lol, until now i was sure there exist separate upgrades for SAMs, but the guide didn't seem to mention them :oops:
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby iap » 16 Jul 2012, 21:44

Ok this makes things a little more clear.

I have a technical question (I keep all my questions here to avoid spamming of the forum):
When I play against one AI it's easy (Oh Yeah!!!)
When I play against several AI it's even easier, because they fight with each other, and I'm missing all the fun.
When I make them all in the same team this is too hard because they share the research. I see them with technologies way more advanced than the phase of the game.

Is there a way to make them just not fight with each other, but also not share research and power?
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby Giani » 16 Jul 2012, 22:33

No. But if you want to have fun, multiplayer is much more fun than single player. And even more fun if you don't play a "random" game. I mean, it is better to play arranged games in IRC(like NoQ always says :P ).
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby iap » 16 Jul 2012, 22:38

You're probably right, but still I like the comfort of pausing or leaving a game without upsetting anyone...
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby Giani » 16 Jul 2012, 22:42

Yeah. Anyway, if you want a more intelligent AI, you can play against Nullbot(viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8826).
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby iap » 17 Jul 2012, 12:41

Yes, I did played against nullbut, and I can see the difference right away. It's not only harder, it's more fun to play against (Big thumbs up for NoQ)! But still, playing against several AI is something I want to do, but it's undoable is for to AI they research twice as fast as I am, and so on.

As for multiplayer, yes, I'm afraid I can't commit for a full uninterrupted game, at least ton at this stage...
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Re: Several questions about the gameplay

Postby NoQ » 17 Jul 2012, 14:56

If you are looking for non-allied and non-interacting allies, you need to find a star-shaped map (on which your AI foes can only reach other AI foes through your base) (i don't think i made anything like that yet).

Also, handling several Nexus AI foes isn't really hard.
I'm afraid I can't commit for a full uninterrupted game
You can learn quite a lot in a 10-minute game - that is, until you learn to survive for that long (:
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