Why is warzone now such a s*t?

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MIH-XTC
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by MIH-XTC » 07 Mar 2019, 23:29

The biggest feature that would help everyone is the ability to push updates to clients. That would solve so many problems

- Players on different versions
- Ability to push out stats periodically
- Releases don't have to be scrutinized as much because they can easily be re-released

I've been playing Fortnite for the past 8 months and they're pushing updates every other day and new stats every couple of weeks. Obviously they have orders of magnitude more resources but my point is their success is largely because they're constantly innovating their stats. They're adding new weapons, changing the ROF, damage, accuracy etc... all of the time until things become optimized. Sometimes their stats changes multiple times in the same week. It also keeps players coming back instead of getting bored with the same game play because they're always checking out what's new. If players don't like the stats then they can just wait because they're always changing.

If WZ could push out stats by auto updating clients it would be tremendously helpful.

I'll return to working on WZ stats some day but too busy IRL.


EDIT: After thinking about this further, I'm thinking the infrastructure would require us to maintain our own file server. I'll pay the monthly hosting fees if that's considered a blocker (depending on how much we're talking). From a coding perspective, it sounds like updating a client (of any sort) could be scripted really easily but this is probably an oversimplification.

Step 1. download file
Step 2. unzip/compress
Step 3. copy/paste

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by ThinkSome » 08 Mar 2019, 01:24

The infra already exists in spring world, so this is as easy as

1) Have wz2100-the-engine implement the unitsync interface so it can be loaded from spring lobby clients
2) Port wz2100-the-game to the Spring engine

The second option is better as Spring outclasses wz2100-the-engine in nearly every way. But *please* don't waste time reimplementing everything. You can even play games and engines directly from the development tree, with several updates per day. This already works. Funny enough, all this functionality makes releases less frequent, when everyone can just play development versions directly.

How much work are *you* prepared to invest into this? (File)servers are cheap, we can all afford them.

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Berg
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Berg » 08 Mar 2019, 05:23

ThinkSome wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 01:24
How much work are *you* prepared to invest into this? (File)servers are cheap, we can all afford them.
You need to invest in it you have said, many time not got the time.

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Re: warzone great again!!!

Post by vexed » 10 Mar 2019, 05:54

andrvaut wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 13:09
With some delay I want to thank everyone who worked on 3.3.0.
The new version can be played without fear of bugs. This is a great achievement.
The only thing that upsets me is the inertia of many hosts.
There are still a lot of rooms in 3.2.3. Please do not use this version for the game.
Yes, right now, we got 3 camps of players, and I agree, that isn't very good.

It was suggested that we drop all but the 3.3.0 beta on the server so everyone can really test it, and we might do that, just need feedback on what everyone thinks.

Of the problems that remained from previous versions, I want to note.
1) mods in multiplayer, they still do not work at all.
2) balance. Playing missiles now is a sure way to lose. I would very much like to be able to return the balance from 3.1.5 to the mod. (This requires the support of an old or compatible accuracy model)

I would also very much like to see the modified possibility of changing the card in the created room.
My opinion, the vulnerability was far-fetched. Maps loading speed is low and it is difficult to take at least some space. But she really enhanced the user experience.
For 1)it is rather complicated the way it works, it can work, but everyone has to have it beforehand, and well, that is rather difficult with all the versions going around.

I don't like map-mods either, way too many people can cheat with those.

Balance is tricky, I know things have changed from 3.1.5, but, simply using the same stats won't make it 1:1, since lots of other stuff has been removed / changed. If someone that frequently plays battles can specify exactly what needs to change and why, we will see what can be done.

Lastly, I strongly disagree about being able to change maps in the lobby screen. Advertising one map, then doing a bait & switch is just deceitful. It also has other issues that I am not happy about as well.
This whole thing needs to be re-written to correctly do this, and not in a hacky way.
/facepalm ...Grinch stole Warzone🙈🙉🙊 contra principia negantem non est disputandum
Super busy, don't expect a timely reply back.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by moltengear » 10 Mar 2019, 11:46

MIH-XTC wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 23:29
The biggest feature that would help everyone is the ability to push updates to clients. That would solve so many problems

- Players on different versions
- Ability to push out stats periodically
- Releases don't have to be scrutinized as much because they can easily be re-released
This is an open project. If I have to choose between security and convenience of a kind, I would choose security.

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Re: warzone great again!!!

Post by andrvaut » 10 Mar 2019, 12:17

vexed wrote:
10 Mar 2019, 05:54


Lastly, I strongly disagree about being able to change maps in the lobby screen. Advertising one map, then doing a bait & switch is just deceitful. It also has other issues that I am not happy about as well.
This whole thing needs to be re-written to correctly do this, and not in a hacky way.
Abuse of game features is possible, but you exaggerate the problem. As a decent host, I often need to:
- change the description of the game. Often I forget to change the name and create a high oil map with the name "Low Oil".
- Included T2-3 after tests.
- not going full room. Replace the room with a smaller one.
- on the contrary, expand the room if not all fit. I often play with my friends, and I have the option of either kicking a third-party player (this is bad) or re-creating the room.

If it scares you so, make it a default behavior to turn off players when changing cards and the ability to remain enabled in the settings.
Even without the ability to save the connection at all, it will be convenient, since immediately after disconnecting, players will be able to connect, rather than wait a few minutes until the host finds a new card.

I do not understand how much you can change some important settings that affect the gameplay after creating the room, while others can not.
The host for the moment before the launch can change scavengers, teams, energy level, base, joint research. So it has always been and there are no complaints about it. These settings are already enough to mislead the players. The host can even leave the game at the very beginning. Changing the card will simply be another way to spoil the game.
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moltengear
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by moltengear » 10 Mar 2019, 12:37

The ability to change the card is a good idea. There are many reasons for which players turn away from the creator of the host. It depends on the creator of the host. He is responsible. We can give a choice.

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Re: warzone great again!!!

Post by Forgon » 10 Mar 2019, 13:12

andrvaut wrote:
10 Mar 2019, 12:17
vexed wrote:
10 Mar 2019, 05:54


Lastly, I strongly disagree about being able to change maps in the lobby screen. Advertising one map, then doing a bait & switch is just deceitful. It also has other issues that I am not happy about as well.
This whole thing needs to be re-written to correctly do this, and not in a hacky way.
Abuse of game features is possible, but you exaggerate the problem. As a decent host, I often need to:
- change the description of the game. Often I forget to change the name and create a high oil map with the name "Low Oil".
- Included T2-3 after tests.
- not going full room. Replace the room with a smaller one.
- on the contrary, expand the room if not all fit. I often play with my friends, and I have the option of either kicking a third-party player (this is bad) or re-creating the room.

If it scares you so, make it a default behavior to turn off players when changing cards and the ability to remain enabled in the settings.
Even without the ability to save the connection at all, it will be convenient, since immediately after disconnecting, players will be able to connect, rather than wait a few minutes until the host finds a new card.

I do not understand how much you can change some important settings that affect the gameplay after creating the room, while others can not.
The host for the moment before the launch can change scavengers, teams, energy level, base, joint research. So it has always been and there are no complaints about it. These settings are already enough to mislead the players. The host can even leave the game at the very beginning. Changing the card will simply be another way to spoil the game.
I have created a survey for this issue in this forum thread.
I lack the forum permission to start a proper survey, but we can count the votes as they come in.

MIH-XTC
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by MIH-XTC » 10 Mar 2019, 17:13

yes it would be very helpful to change the map after hosting has begun.

The reason is because as players join, they often discuss and would like to change the map. Especially when the map fills all spots and they were waiting for their friend to join. They either have to kick someone or re-host. This is a very common occurrence, it happens all of the time. Being able to change the map without rehosting would be very useful.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by vexed » 11 Mar 2019, 00:36

Nobody has ever said that the host shouldn't ever be able to do that (and other things), what was said was, AT THIS TIME, it shouldn't be done.

The engine limitations, the GUI limitations and overall code quality makes it extremely bug prone, and has other issues that are unwanted.

I rather we strip all this out of WZ, and have a WZ launcher that passes parameters to Warzone, and go from there.
Using Qt for the lobby client makes perfect sense, and has enough widgets for everything we need to make a actual lobby where things can be voted on maps changes, map previews, and all that good stuff, like other games have. Of course, the kicker there is, someone needs to do it.

Once the release of 3.3.0, and once the code in question can be cleaned up, we can come back to this, but, right now, it is a mess.
/facepalm ...Grinch stole Warzone🙈🙉🙊 contra principia negantem non est disputandum
Super busy, don't expect a timely reply back.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by ThinkSome » 11 Mar 2019, 19:35

vexed wrote:
11 Mar 2019, 00:36
I rather we strip all this out of WZ, and have a WZ launcher that passes parameters to Warzone, and go from there.
Using Qt for the lobby client makes perfect sense, and has enough widgets for everything we need to make a actual lobby where things can be voted on maps changes, map previews, and all that good stuff, like other games have. Of course, the kicker there is, someone needs to do it.
So you'd rather re-implement spring lobby? If you can implement unitsync, you could have spring lobbies launch warzone, with everything infra-wise already done.
vexed wrote:
11 Mar 2019, 00:36
The engine limitations, the GUI limitations and overall code quality makes it extremely bug prone, and has other issues that are unwanted.
Then why not go all the way and port the game to the Spring engine? We can change maps in the battleroom there and it is not a problem at all. That said, Spring has no issues with number of players per map as spring maps have no fixed player locations and the spawn location is usually picked by the players themselves after the game has already started (usually limited to 10-20% of their side of the map).

And before you tell me that *I* should do the initial porting, no:
a) I am not a gamedev and refuse to become one
b) I am not going to do something which makes the people that matter go "meh" and that would never become official, anyway => waste of time.
But I can help you with running wz with Springlobby, should you decide to implement unitsync. (I had my fingers in that codebase).

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Berg
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Berg » 11 Mar 2019, 20:01

ThinkSome wrote:
11 Mar 2019, 19:35
Then why not go all the way and port the game to the Spring engine? We can change maps in the battleroom there and it is not a problem at all. That said, Spring has no issues with number of players per map as spring maps have no fixed player locations and the spawn location is usually picked by the players themselves after the game has already started (usually limited to 10-20% of their side of the map).
Then its not warzone..Your constantly saying spring this and that, AND its not compatible with warzone features at the same time.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by ThinkSome » 11 Mar 2019, 20:13

3.1.5 players say the same for the 3.2.3 changes and 3.3.0 changes and so on. It is much, much easier to disable unwanted features than implement them from scratch, plus you get extra developers to work on "your" engine (and vice-versa on the spring side). Get on with the times, issues such as people being unable to rejoin after disconnect or being unable to move units in a formation or at the same speed does not belong in 2019. Not to mention the silly hard-coded unit and buildable limits.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 11 Mar 2019, 23:51

Berg is right imagine how incompatible it will be if we try replacing it's old engine with spring.
I may not be a developer but i do agree with berg.
Apologies if i dont see your post
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