Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

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Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby KillerChinchilla69 » 09 Feb 2016, 21:22

So just a little preface, I has been hard to discuss this in IRC because there are a lot of problems and ideas about what should be done. Everyone really cares about this game, so discussion has got heated. Please remember that we are all on the same side and should work together! :D Also, people can think of many different new features to try to solve these problems, but simplest is often best. The solution I am proposing requires no update and can start being used immediately!

The main issue that has lead to other issues is this: Kicking new players from games upsets them and negatively impacts the community. Want proof? look here and here. (Warning NSFW language)

This has lead to removing ranks so we cannot tell who is a new player, in the hopes theat kicking would stop, which seems like the improper action to rectify the problem. Additionally, removing rank with the plans to eventually implement a server based, tamper proof ranking system does not make much sense. This is not the point of this post, but it is a point that NF-Cowboy has made several times and for good reason.

Here is what we need to figure out: How can we reduce or stop kicking new players from experienced player games?
I say kicking new players from experienced player games because that is what hurts the community and causes issues. New players have a smaller investment to the game and are more likely to stop playing because of the negative experience. If an experienced player gets kicked from a new player game, I don't think most of us would be too upset. We may not like it, but we certainly wont stop playing because of it.

There is no perfect solution. We should try to solve the problem with the tools we have, and we have always been able to password protect rooms.

I propose using password protection on games where we want only experienced players. This password can be common knowledge among experienced players so they can join easily. Right now their is a PW at the top of the #warzone2100-games IRC channel. When you host a room, name it something like "PRO GAME GET PW IN IRC". Lets actually use IRC to help organize games.

We can start right away, so we would not have to wait for an update for a new feature. Like every solution, there are pros and cons, I am sure people can add to this list:

Pros
It will increase the usage of IRC, which is good for the community!
It will give pro games more of a feeling of elitism. The VIP section of the club, so to speak. I think

Cons:

It will take effort to get everyone on board.
Some pros don't use IRC. - well they could start, or we could just tell them the pw using other methods.
So pro players cant kick noobs but they can kick me? That is unfair! - yes it is, but we are all adults and can deal with the occasional kick from noob games.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby vexed » 10 Feb 2016, 05:56

Nice, but to clarify one thing, ranks have had no real meaning in the history of Warzone 2100.
They are a simple text file (was binary before) where anyone can edit it.
Over the years, there have been lots of complaints (via e-mail, IRC, and forums) about being kicked for no other reason than they have a pacifier icon.
Since this was the case, we decided to try something different temporarily, and have no ranking displayed in the lobby.
We are working on a better system for this as well, which will hopefully solve the major issues.
We also put out builds with the changes and pleaded with people to test them, and there was exactly 0 responses about this and other changes.

I also wonder what is a "Pro" exactly?
Just someone who has played lots of games?
There doesn't seem to be specific criteria for being called a "Pro".

Anyway, thanks for taking some kind of an initiative about this, the community appreciates it. :3
/facepalm ...Grinch stole Warzone🙈🙉🙊 contra principia negantem non est disputandum
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby cybersphinx » 10 Feb 2016, 06:33

vexed wrote:I also wonder what is a "Pro" exactly?
Just someone who has played lots of games?
There doesn't seem to be specific criteria for being called a "Pro".
By the "real" definition, it would be someone earning money with something, but I doubt there is any money in playing Warzone. In gaming circles, it seems to be a term mostly to make one feel good about oneself for not being a filthy noob.
We want information... information... information.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby Berg » 10 Feb 2016, 10:13

I don’t think even the real pro's are pro's less they actually contribute to the community with a game playing professional attitude and mentor ring skills this makes a real unpaid pro!!!!
Hail thee that dost not kick!!! <---the spell checker says its legal English.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby KillerChinchilla69 » 10 Feb 2016, 19:27

vexed wrote:I also wonder what is a "Pro" exactly?

Yeah, I don't really like the term either, which is why I tried to avoid using it in most of my post. I think experienced player would be a better term. Pro is just a nice short hand which may be why it is used so much.



cybersphinx wrote:By the "real" definition, it would be someone earning money with something, but I doubt there is any money in playing Warzone. In gaming circles, it seems to be a term mostly to make one feel good about oneself for not being a filthy noob.


It would be wonderful to make money playing Warzone, but yeah, very unlikely. :(


Berg wrote:I don’t think even the real pro's are pro's less they actually contribute to the community with a game playing professional attitude and mentor ring skills this makes a real unpaid pro!!!!
Hail thee that dost not kick!!! <---the spell checker says its legal English.

Well, I don't want to debate if video game players are professional athletes, but if we look at pro athletes they have a huge amount of responsibility. Being a good role model, keeping out of trouble, giving back to the community, etc are all part of being a "Pro". Look at professional sports and all they do to get kids into playing the game. They understand that they need to teach new players in order for their sport to have a future. I wish more people would see the parallel with Warzone. It is a very old game that only a few people get exposed to per unit of time, we really need to try to convert as many people as possible into the community.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby NoQ » 11 Feb 2016, 20:29

Maybe remove the kick button instead / as well?
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby KillerChinchilla69 » 11 Feb 2016, 22:23

NoQ wrote:Maybe remove the kick button instead / as well?


I would strongly disagree. People do need to be kicked sometimes. High pings, trolls, people afk that wont ready up etc. FWIW, I think removing rank to fix the kick problem is a terrible idea. Now people get kicked even more!
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby Berg » 11 Feb 2016, 23:39

KillerChinchilla69 wrote:Now people get kicked even more!

I think its the nature of the beast we need to teach the idea that new players are needed its a wonder the community has not spiralled down to a tiny dot in the bottom of a coffee cup.

With all this good intent there must be a solution removing rank has slowed it a little, you just need open you eyes and see a few new names in the IRC channel its not a lot but its a start.

The community needs to be behind the removal of this distainfull habit that Pros's have of thinking they are above good manners!
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby stiv » 12 Feb 2016, 01:14

FWIW, I think removing rank to fix the kick problem is a terrible idea

You misunderstand the intent. As currently implemented, it is unreliable data. Given that the rank info is stored in a local file on the player's machine, it is possible to edit the file and be any rank you want.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby KillerChinchilla69 » 12 Feb 2016, 05:21

Perhaps it would be best to discuss rank removal in a separate thread, as that is not the intended purpose of this thread, and i have quite a lot to say about this issue.

stiv wrote:
FWIW, I think removing rank to fix the kick problem is a terrible idea

You misunderstand the intent. As currently implemented, it is unreliable data. Given that the rank info is stored in a local file on the player's machine, it is possible to edit the file and be any rank you want.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby NoQ » 12 Feb 2016, 15:51

KillerChinchilla69 wrote:
NoQ wrote:Maybe remove the kick button instead / as well?


I would strongly disagree. People do need to be kicked sometimes. High pings, trolls, people afk that wont ready up etc. FWIW, I think removing rank to fix the kick problem is a terrible idea. Now people get kicked even more!

Hmm. Yeah, right.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby KillerChinchilla69 » 13 Feb 2016, 01:11

NoQ wrote:
KillerChinchilla69 wrote:
NoQ wrote:Maybe remove the kick button instead / as well?


I would strongly disagree. People do need to be kicked sometimes. High pings, trolls, people afk that wont ready up etc. FWIW, I think removing rank to fix the kick problem is a terrible idea. Now people get kicked even more!

Hmm. Yeah, right.


Not sure if you are agreeing with my comment or are sarcastically being dismissive. I play a lot of games and see this kind of stuff every day.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby NoQ » 14 Feb 2016, 12:56

I'm serious and i'm agreeing that the kick button is truly useful; it was a quick random brainstorming from me, rarely successful.
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby KillerChinchilla69 » 16 Feb 2016, 04:48

Berg wrote:
KillerChinchilla69 wrote:Now people get kicked even more!

I think its the nature of the beast we need to teach the idea that new players are needed its a wonder the community has not spiralled down to a tiny dot in the bottom of a coffee cup.

With all this good intent there must be a solution removing rank has slowed it a little, you just need open you eyes and see a few new names in the IRC channel its not a lot but its a start.

The community needs to be behind the removal of this disdainful habit that Pros's have of thinking they are above good manners!

I certainly agree that we need to foster tolerance of new players and stewardship towards helping them become better. If you are a new player, please see my New Player Tips YouTube Playlist, link in my signature. I can certaily see why people want to avoid new players...It feels really bad investing time into a game and losing because a new player makes a bunch of bone head moves. Its not so bad when they try to help, but a lot of the time they dont listen or respond to your input.

I can give an example that will hopefully inspire others to help new players and let them play with you. There is a player that uses the handle "Super Mario" I played a few games with him and he was pretty green but I could see him getting better over the few games. Last time I played with him was in a 4v4 game and it was em and him in the middle. He played very well, had the most kills, and our team won teh game. So, go forth and teach newbies!
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Re: Solution to Kicking New Players - PRO GAMES USE PASSWORD

Postby Nexus66648 » 11 May 2016, 22:25

You could try adding in a training system the player has to use to get to the multiplayer section although this might have its down sides
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