Medium cannon bypass..

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Tzeentch
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Medium cannon bypass..

Post by Tzeentch » 27 Nov 2014, 21:48

When playing online and doing specific research paths the hyper velocity cannon replaces the medium cannon. With the existing tech tree this allows you to bypass the medium cannon altogether and go straight for the hyper v cannon..

See hyper v cannon - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/Research.ph ... on4AUTOMk1

Medium - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/Research.ph ... non2A-TMk1

This means you can research to get hyper before medium then subsequently there is not point researching medium cannon.

I believe the requirement for hyper cannon should be first getting medium cannon.

thoughts? I'm already aware it's only 2 mins longer to get hyper v cannon with those tech routes
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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by Tzeentch » 27 Nov 2014, 21:50

I wouldn't say its OP but it certainly helps earlish game going for this and churning out these tanks with it.
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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by NoQ » 28 Nov 2014, 08:19

only 2 mins longer
Well, first of all, two minutes is a lot. It's long enough for a victory through timing push.

But also, these calculations are not exactly realistic. They assume that you get research module as soon as possible and tech as quickly as possible, which is only true for high-oil games. In standard games, you cannot afford research module that early, and HPV, which unlike MC pre-reqs it, gets significantly delayed.

Also it's worse against cyborgs (though MC is also fairly bad against cyborg spam).

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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by Iluvalar » 28 Nov 2014, 17:06

Also this suggest to not research the factory modules ? Which mean you'd mount your hvc on viper bodies ? These tanks would have so low hp for the amount of power that they would be very cost inefficient and probably worst overall then the basic viper light cannon you were using until now.

I do jump to hvc all the time as well, but note that with the splash damage accounted, it's a lost of dps for the range. Both medium cannons and hvc are competitive weapon of the same generation.
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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by Tzeentch » 28 Nov 2014, 22:50

"Also this suggest to not research the factory modules ?" you can still get it, just you have greater flex-ability with tech upgrade paths and later game you'd have no reason to research the M cannon if you've already got hvc or choose to avoid the M cannon, that being said I suppose you'd also consider going after the Hcannon too which means you'd need the M cannon. It is possibly not a great combo sticking to viper + hpc and yeah vs cyborgs it'd be a losing situation

I wasn't quite sure how the research times were calculated but suspected along those lines
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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by crab_ » 09 Dec 2014, 16:23

Wow. How I missed this thread. Topic starter is saying right things.
HPV cannon is better that Med.Cannon. If you playing cannons strategy then your first goal is research HPV cannon, Do you really need med.cannon? Not sure.
Lets see;
1) HPV Cannon has longest range in set of all direct weapons, until you get Tan KIller (T3). That advantage makes that HPV-cannon competitive during long period of game.
Med Cannon Range - 8
Lancer Range - 9
HPV Range - 10
2) HPV Cannon is best cannon until you get Heavy Cannon or Twin Cannon

My game experience shows - Med Cannon is rarely used weapon.
HPV Cannon is better investment than MC
NoQ wrote:But also, these calculations are not exactly realistic.
Wut? :oops: XD Are you sure? Feel free to correct this. https://github.com/crab312/warzone2100- ... ns.js#L572
Calculations serve to show a situation in general.
NoQ wrote:In standard games, you cannot afford research module that early, and HPV, which unlike MC pre-reqs it, gets significantly delayed.
This assumption is not exactly correct.
In general - research module and further research upgrades is most valuable thing in low-oil games, because after 3-4 minutes of taking research upgrades you will receive power bonus which increases you power production up to 100%.
http://betaguide.wz2100.net/Research.ph ... Upgrade01c

hmm...anyway...
In Low-oil game timing of receiving upgrades and weapons is dependent on you strategy and playing style and selected map and many things.
But if you producing Med.Cannon and delaying research of HPV cannon - this may say you playing wrong strategy.
In my opinion, Cannons strategy requires forcing of research.

NoQ say how often you use Med.Cannon in low-oil games?
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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by Iluvalar » 10 Dec 2014, 01:27

crab_ wrote:
NoQ wrote:In standard games, you cannot afford research module that early, and HPV, which unlike MC pre-reqs it, gets significantly delayed.
This assumption is not exactly correct.
In general - research module and further research upgrades is most valuable thing in low-oil games, because after 3-4 minutes of taking research upgrades you will receive power bonus which increases you power production up to 100%.
http://betaguide.wz2100.net/Research.ph ... Upgrade01c
No he is right. At some point you must chose between

a) Factory module, armor = 30-90% stronger units on short term.
b) Research module = Capacity to pay for more research (but you dont have the power) + power upgrade (30-90%) in 8 minutes.

Since you already devote at least 1 lab to your weapons. because obvious upgrade is obvious and 1 lab to miscelanous things (htrack, repair, etc..). You have to chose between one of those 2. And it's the quicker gain from factory (armor, cobra) which win against the later research gain.

Note that the medium cannons do more damage once in range and that's a good point for them.
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Re: Medium cannon bypass..

Post by bendib » 23 Jun 2015, 01:39

Behold! My necro posting powers!

anyway, I prefer HPV as well because of range, but medium cannon, if used properly, can do the job just fine. It IS better vs borgs, it's cheaper, and has higher HP. Tracked medium cannon is a bad idea, because to make medium cannon work you need to be aggressive and fast. Superborgs, all cannon superborgs, require medium cannon, so make sure you research it before Cyborg Dense Composite Alloys or you'll be late with superborgs. I love my superborgs.
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