How to effectively use Cyborgs

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Tucalipe
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How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Tucalipe » 28 Dec 2013, 21:01

I've been wanting to know this ever since the original WZ2100 came out.

I know how to effectively use Commanders to advance to a position, Mobile Artillery to destroy base defenses, and VTOL's to wear down the enemy and provide support.

However, I haven't found a good way to use cyborgs. To me, for every cyborg model available, there's a tank/half-track/VTOL that performs better in battle. How am I supposed to work with cyborgs then?

Thanks...

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Iluvalar
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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Iluvalar » 31 Dec 2013, 05:21

Relevant pro :
1- They are nearly immune to all-rounder(cannon, gauss) and anti-tank(rockets) weapons.
2- They take less research, the armor is cheaper, they scale a bit faster in early mid game
3- They have great mobility, walk is tigher area, dont have to turn like other propulsion

Irrelevant pro :
1- They are best propulsion in mud and slush. But most maps dont have that in mind and current terrain modifiers are too small to really matter.

Con :
1- They are weak against flamers and anti-personnel (mg, laser) weapons
2- There is no relevant late game models. They get obsolete with lasers.
3- The tech jump for a pure cyborg rush is quite hard to do in duel map.


You will use them as a counter against opponents that jump the machine gun and flamers research. And once in a while, you should pull the cannon borg rush opening as a surprise attack.
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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by anonim17465 » 02 Jan 2014, 20:57

First thing, cyborgs in main army
If you will not use cyborgs, I will massively use cannons and AT rockets.
Idea for cyborgs is to stop opponent from using mono-army, because mix of cyborgs+tanks are more powerfull against any mono-army than just tanks or just cyborgs.

example(numbers are wrong):
cannon do 80 dmg to tank and 25 dmg to cyborg.
In this case cyborgs are about 3 times better economically.

MG do about 100 dmg to cyborg and 25 dmg to tank.
In this case tanks are 4 times better than cyborgs

So, if you will have tanks+cyborgs and you know that your opponent is not smart enough to make something else rather than army of the same type of unit, you will get (1+3)/2=1.5 or (1+4)/2=2 bonus.
50-100% bonus for using cyborgs in battle against pure-MG or pure-cannons.
~50 cannon-cyborg(or HVC(or railgun)) ~10 flamers ~5 artilery. add them all in your main army.

Second, cyborgs as a back-up squad.
It's very popular tactic. You can hold somewhere next to battlefield 15 cyborg flamers that can either destroy whole tank army of cannons or AT rockets or destroy\stop others flamers from attacking your tanks. And because they are fast you can run away in case of artilery or tank flamers\MG attack.
As for me this tactic is something that just can't be avoided. Too much profit, too tempting.
15-25 flamers. Keep them on a fast number, but don't add them to your main army.

Cyborgs as a faster repair
Main cyborg bonus is that they are smal, fast and agile. They are much better at repearing because they can easily sneak between your units to reach damaged one. Use "q" (or "patrol") command for best effect.
They are so fast that it's usable even in battle, if enemy's army is smaller than your. After tis you may lose as few as just couple of units, and after couple of minutes all of them will be fully repaired.
Need: 5-20 units. "q" across your army or "alt+click" on 5-10 your tanks in sequence to follow. Don't put them in main army.
Last thing, builder
They are not so good as trucks, because they still take one of 15 slots of builder (hard coded?).
But they may be usefull to quickly obtain many slow and agile builders (for expansion in many directions for example)

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Tucalipe » 03 Jan 2014, 06:23

Thanks for the tips!
I'll try them later.

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Iluvalar
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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Iluvalar » 03 Jan 2014, 17:50

Anonim's explanations are bogus. First he prove how mixed army is better then pure borgs against mg and pure tank against cannons. But he completly ignore that pure borg are better against rocket and pure tank agaisnt mg. Amusingly he say if "your opponent is not smart enough" failing to realise he still do the exact same error.

Secondly, maintaining the research perfectly for both the cyborgs and the tanks is impossible. Your whole army would slowly resist less and less to damage. Against a mono-weapon, a mono propulsion is better.

Finaly, the auto-targeting AI in the game make units focus on the correct propulsion. Given no specific orders, machine guns will first focus on cyborgs and cannons on tank. Which again reduce the efficiency of the mixed strategy. (And I dont even talk about intentional players giving micro orders..).
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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Rman Virgil » 04 Jan 2014, 00:49

.

Iluvalar, I understand your research point, but what are your thoughts on improving the microing mechanics of an army comprised of multiple, mono, combat groups ? Is it a direction worth making effective as a viable, fun, alternative to always fielding a mono army ?
.

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by ClockWork » 19 Jan 2014, 08:27

essentially, if your enemy is deploying droids with;
Anti-tank weapons: (mini pod [excluding the mini pod artillery! that is artillery, totally different ballpark] Lancer rockets, Tank-killer, Scourge missiles,)
All-rounder: (Cannons, needlers, gauss,)
Bunker busters
Then you will want to counter those with cyborgs, since they are much more cost effective against those types of weapons.

Note: All rounder types actually do fair damage to cyborgs, but typically deal more damage than Anti-tank weapons. (As ere, against cyborgs.)

However, you generally don't want Cyborgs to go up against any Anti-personnel (machineguns, lasers,) artillery (mortars, ground shakers, missile artillery) and flame throwers. They are weak against those.

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Shozz22 » 24 May 2014, 13:48

And in campaign the cyborgs are good or no?
For my are very weak and do less dmg

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by montetank » 25 May 2014, 14:13

Shozz22 wrote:And in campaign the cyborgs are good or no?
For my are very weak and do less dmg
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3051&p=119145&hili ... 11#p119145
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Shozz22 » 25 May 2014, 16:10

montetank wrote:
Shozz22 wrote:And in campaign the cyborgs are good or no?
For my are very weak and do less dmg
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3051&p=119145&hili ... 11#p119145
My idol is NoQ. He isva pro player and he shows that cyborgs are not good in campaign

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by NoQ » 26 May 2014, 01:09

Well, they might be not as effective as tanks on most missions, but since the campaign is just sooo easy, i guess somebody eventually needs to try beating it with pure viper wheels and cyborgs. There would be losses, but it's also quite a bit of fun to micro them around.

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Shozz22 » 26 May 2014, 01:16

NoQ wrote:Well, they might be not as effective as tanks on most missions, but since the campaign is just sooo easy, i guess somebody eventually needs to try beating it with pure viper wheels and cyborgs. There would be losses, but it's also quite a bit of fun to micro them around.
I think that is impossible finish the game only with cyborgs.

P.s i need ur answer at my post aboyt weapons in campaign

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by montetank » 26 May 2014, 01:51

NoQ wrote:Well, they might be not as effective as tanks on most missions, but since the campaign is just sooo easy, i guess somebody eventually needs to try beating it with pure viper wheels and cyborgs. There would be losses, but it's also quite a bit of fun to micro them around.
Thats a good idea, NoQ. I will start to solve the campaign tommorow only with viper wheels. And i am sure - it is possible :D
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by montetank » 26 May 2014, 02:21

Shozz22 wrote:
P.s i need ur answer at my post aboyt weapons in campaign
Shozz22 find your way. I solved the campaign one time only with trucks and 4 units (cant remember which units). But ok. You are asking for the weapons. Which mission? We need more informations.
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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Re: How to effectively use Cyborgs

Post by Shozz22 » 26 May 2014, 09:50

montetank wrote:
Shozz22 wrote:
P.s i need ur answer at my post aboyt weapons in campaign
Shozz22 find your way. I solved the campaign one time only with trucks and 4 units (cant remember which units). But ok. You are asking for the weapons. Which mission? We need more informations.
I finished this game a lot of time. I started on PS1and then on PC. I ever used pulse laser and tank killer.
But watching guide about dmg, hp and damage modifiers versus cyborg and hover im fallen in doubt.
And for this reason i want same opinions

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