T1 my friend

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JJjopando
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by JJjopando » 04 Aug 2012, 23:23

I don't understand what the big deal is. I must be missing something. First, how did your opponent even afford that many transports? And if you think these 900-dollar flying bricks are overpowered, then why aren't you complaining about HMG Python vtols? I use those, because they cost a lot less and have the exact same effect.
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Giani
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by Giani » 04 Aug 2012, 23:58

JDW wrote:
tmp500 wrote:is a transporter with an hmg mounted underneath it really so a great idea? i have seen plenty of games(and high oil) where people build ~10 of those transporters, which have strong armor and let them float above your base....
I agree, lately it's become a sort of fad to use transporters more than just a utility unit. They are beatable, sure, but the idea of misusing a game mechanic seems to bother me a bit. Transporters were introduced in MP to be used for transporting units, but they are now turned into an army. I think transporters do not require to have any weapon at all, they have sufficient HP to keep them alive and fly over enemy AA defense, and their payload itself can be used to protect them in desperation. I don't see the reason for it having a HMG turret, or any other weapon for that matter.
I have played many NTW games were the enemy has more than enough AA to kill any type of VTOLs, including transports. If you start researching AA soon enough, you will be able to kill any transport army.
And the mg is for giving the transport some kind of defense...
JJjopando wrote:I don't understand what the big deal is. I must be missing something. First, how did your opponent even afford that many transports? And if you think these 900-dollar flying bricks are overpowered, then why aren't you complaining about HMG Python vtols? I use those, because they cost a lot less and have the exact same effect.
+1. But transports are more strong than that type of VTOL.
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by NoQ » 05 Aug 2012, 03:11

JJjopando wrote:If you get beaten by a tactic, come up with an effective counter instead of nerfing everything you can't beat.
Please read the forum section name aloud three times.
JJjopando wrote:exact same effect
Absolutely not, due to finite ammo (and huge rearm time due to weight).
Giani wrote:And the mg is for giving the transport some kind of defense...
By the way, why would anybody want that? You can escort your transport with regular VTOLs if you want to protect it.

I'm for removing the weapon and then reducing the price significantly. This will make the transports usable exactly as intended.

Also, please stop using NTW games as examples in balance discussions. Games where a large part of game balance is explicitly and deliberately thrown away are unrelated to any balance discussion. Transporters often become a problem in standard games as well.

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Also, i wonder if removing the transporter weapon is possible at all. Every unit must have a turret, right? Probably replace it with sensor? It would be non-trivial though, cause it will make artillery shoot then. Maybe replace it with VTOL Strike Turret (?!) and attach escort if necessary.

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In fact, i'd rather talk about flamers. Anybody feels the same? Cause i haven't precisely noticed it yet. Right now i'm not sure at all what is the place of flamers in the current early game balance.

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Re: T1 my friend

Post by JDW » 05 Aug 2012, 07:19

Giani wrote:I have played many NTW games were the enemy has more than enough AA to kill any type of VTOLs, including transports. If you start researching AA soon enough, you will be able to kill any transport army.
And the mg is for giving the transport some kind of defense...
I don't think you really tried to understand what I am trying to say here. The MG is for giving some kind of defense? You seriously think nobody figured that out? :lol2:
Anyways, you are missing the point entirely. Although NoQ seems to understand,
NoQ wrote:
Giani wrote:And the mg is for giving the transport some kind of defense...
By the way, why would anybody want that? You can escort your transport with regular VTOLs if you want to protect it.
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by JJjopando » 05 Aug 2012, 08:22

Stop trying to ruin Warzone. Stop making excuses for failure.

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Re: T1 my friend

Post by NoQ » 05 Aug 2012, 09:30

JJjopando wrote:
Prove you're qualified for the discussion first.

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Re: T1 my friend

Post by tmp500 » 05 Aug 2012, 13:51

In fact, i'd rather talk about flamers
yeah.. i stated my opinion in the first post ;)
Stop trying to ruin Warzone. Stop making excuses for failure.
warzone is completely ruined without a hmg on the vtol transporter?? O_o

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Re: T1 my friend

Post by Giani » 05 Aug 2012, 15:30

NoQ wrote:
Giani wrote:And the mg is for giving the transport some kind of defense...
By the way, why would anybody want that? You can escort your transport with regular VTOLs if you want to protect it.
It would need lot of micromanagement... :hmm:
Anyway,
In fact, i'd rather talk about flamers
+1
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by tmp500 » 05 Aug 2012, 15:54

that could be clearer than my original post....

u just have to res flamers for borgs and tanks, but mg and canon/rox not going flamers... so that gives u powerful flamers early on.... i still would be interested in having cheap concrete defense structures early on, could force the flamer boys to research an additional weapon....

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Re: T1 my friend

Post by JDW » 05 Aug 2012, 16:16

Giani wrote:
In fact, i'd rather talk about flamers
+1
Alright, issue dropped.
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by Giani » 05 Aug 2012, 16:17

tmp500 wrote:i still would be interested in having cheap concrete defense structures early on, could force the flamer boys to research an additional weapon....
That cheap concrete defense structure is called tank traps. The only problem is that... it sucks...
Btw, I think that if somebody wants to talk about transports, he/she should make a new thread, because this thread is supposed to be for T1.
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by Iluvalar » 05 Aug 2012, 17:16

Inferno have an accuracy that is affected by the accuracy bug. It's not exactly in the sweat spot like the lancers, but it is 33% stronger than expected again 1x1 buildings at short range. So please before talking about balance let's fix the bugs.

I still convinced that a new smg for transporter (stats of smg + gfx of mg-vtol) would be nice. There would be no pb with that weapon...
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by Giani » 05 Aug 2012, 17:26

Iluvalar wrote: I still convinced that a new smg for transporter (stats of smg + gfx of mg-vtol) would be nice. There would be no pb with that weapon...
If you meant:
Solution : replacing the vtol-HMG by a special transporter mg that is cloned based on the single machine gun.
Then I agree.

But I don't understand how the "prophetic bug" affects flamers because it is a weapon for atacking lot of units at the same time :hmm:
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by Iluvalar » 05 Aug 2012, 17:37

There is not 1 but 2 bug right now with the accuracy

The first making the inferno "miss" their shots in the structure hitbox. Causing them to have 100% hit ratio instead of 75%.

The second being the prophetic skill of the droids which is not so much a pb for flamers against walls.
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Re: T1 my friend

Post by JDW » 05 Aug 2012, 17:54

Giani wrote:
Iluvalar wrote: I still convinced that a new smg for transporter (stats of smg + gfx of mg-vtol) would be nice. There would be no pb with that weapon...
If you meant:
Solution : replacing the vtol-HMG by a special transporter mg that is cloned based on the single machine gun.
Then I agree.
Since you're still interested in discussing it Giani, even though you said you rather discuss flamers,
NoQ wrote:Probably replace it with sensor? It would be non-trivial though, cause it will make artillery shoot then. Maybe replace it with VTOL Strike Turret (?!) and attach escort if necessary.
I would think this would be a better option.
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