[suggestion] compressible research point

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[suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Iluvalar » 09 May 2012, 21:13

This is a suggestion for a balancing mechanism that would first be seen in mods. So I don't really know where it belong.

When I try to design a tech tree so it scale on a longer period than the one we have right now, there is alway the same problems that arise. Mainly : why can't i research the stone axe anymore ?

Providing a stable tech tree that do not push everyone into crippling specialization (like now or in NRS) or a life threatening race to specialization (like it was in my CTT mod) seem impossible to achieve on longer term. In other words, T0 or T4 are very hard to conceive if they link to the T1-T3 tree...

That's why come the idea of compressible research point :
=> A research would have 2 type of research points CRP and URP (uncompressible RP).
=> Another research line (and potentially bonus checkpoints) would give "era points" that would substract directly the compressible points of other research.

For exemple
Code: Select all
wooden club       =  600 URP + 0 CRP (proof of concept, not actually claiming we should add caveman any soon  XD )
MG                    = 100 URP + 1000 CRP
Rockets             = 90 URP + 1020 CRP
Laser                 = 80 URP + 1040 CRP
(Assuming all research gives the same amount of output)

A T1 player would start with 1000 "era point". The machine gun would hit the minimal cap of 100$. while the rockets would cost 110$ and laser 120$ for the same output.

A T2 player would start with 1020 "era point". the machine gun would stay at 100$ but the rockets would now cost 90$. It would make it a nicer weapon to get.

At T3, (1040 ep) the laser would be down to 80$. Far better antipersonal weapon than the MG and would be the natural choice if a player need to start a new AP line. At that point he could destroy the building that make new T1 weapons visible in his lab. And keep playing with T2, T3 and the futur T4 options.

This would give a smooth mechanism to slowly turn obsolete old stuff, while allowing players to see futur tech soon enough in the game. And allowing fluid, long term research tree.
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Re: [suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Iluvalar » 25 May 2012, 23:21

Ok so here is how I would use it after...

First.
The would be an "era" buildings line. I wouldn't want to got that far from current time line by now, but I would probably try to regress up to the modern era. I would probably be tempted to split the T1-T2 in an era and T3 in the next one. and I would probably dig into the 2120 mod for more future buildings and weapon for the next era. At the end we would get :
1) Modern set
2) Scavenger set
2) T1 (normal one)
3) T3 (nexus one )
4) 2120 mod set
5) 2120 T3 ?

Each new research would unlock a new whole set of buildings, only marginaly better than the previous one. The CC of that set would unlock a whole new set of weapons (anti-personnal, anti-tank, all-rounder etc.), but only when it is built¹. Those research would give about 5 era points as well.

Second.
There would be era point only research line, each would give 5 era point and would be longer. And would produce ~10 era point per era.

Third.
All the research lines would give some era point at the end depending of the line length. So players would get some compensation from the line that abruptly end.

For each era, the line of research would require ~10 more era point to be efficient and could use up to 10 more era point to be more efficient than the previous ones.

So the players could rush into the era building sets to get bigger weapons. But it would quickly become too expensive. The solution would be to either try to jump to the next era with the era point line or to play with current weapons long enough to reach the end of them. The players would be able to progressively destroy their old CC to remove from the research option the old stuff and they would very slowly replace their older building by newer options.
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Re: [suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Giani » 26 May 2012, 01:35

So you want to make this: Age of empires+warzone2100 ?
And the "modern era" doesn't fit warzone, it is suposed to be 2100, not 2012.
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Re: [suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Iluvalar » 26 May 2012, 02:22

You must understand that we start T1 with 3 research and we end T3 with 50 researches. There is no way we can add a scavenger T0 or a T4 with that scheme.
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Re: [suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Lord Apocalypse » 26 May 2012, 07:30

Its still easier to wrap your head around than the MoO 3 tech tree. I think it was 6 schools and 99 tech levels.

Now, when you start labeling tech eras most people will start thinking about large time spans. I never played AoE so my first thought is era level tech would be Civilization (played 3-5).

Giani, after a nuclear holocaust it might as well be 2012 with the plummet of technology in the aftermath.

After A nuclear war we would be lucky to have any of our current technology let alone fix it.

The reasoning for this is sound, just the concept needs to be rethought.
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Re: [suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Giani » 26 May 2012, 16:51

Lord Apocalypse wrote:Giani, after a nuclear holocaust it might as well be 2012 with the plummet of technology in the aftermath.
After A nuclear war we would be lucky to have any of our current technology let alone fix it.
The reasoning for this is sound, just the concept needs to be rethought.

That is like having an apocalypse now and being lucky of having arrows...
Nobody would have the weapons of today at 2100.
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Re: [suggestion] compressible research point

Postby Iluvalar » 26 May 2012, 17:05

What if I make the players play trough the apocalypse ?

Near the end of the modern set, players discover nuclear missile and radioactive "flamers" they have an area of effect incredibly high and make slow damage trough a new damage type (kinetic,heat,radio). Even the user can't go close anymore... But here come the scavenger set... weapons and buildings that mostly regress from previous stages but that possess mostly a good radioactive armor.
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