Yet another balance proposal.

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NoQ
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Yet another balance proposal.

Post by NoQ » 26 Apr 2012, 12:49

This mod is based on stats of 3.1_beta8, and assumes that no fixes to incendiary damage or accuracy or anything like that will happen before the final 3.1 release. What do you think guys? Is it at least averagely better than the current one?
Cyborg Flamer incend.damage 22->20
Inferno price 80->90 incend.radius 64->48 incend.damage 40->36
Plasmite price 80->120 incend.radius 96->60 incend.damage 63->50
Minipod range 1152->1088
MRA damage 34->30 reload 145->165
AG price 100->110 damage 20->18
TAG price 100->120 damage 30->26
AC damage 35->40
MC price 150->120 build points 500->425, research points 4800->3600
HPV price 175->145 build points 700->500, research points 7200->4800
Last edited by NoQ on 10 May 2012, 16:18, edited 6 times in total.

Reg312
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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Reg312 » 26 Apr 2012, 12:57

Cyp said something about FIX for ROF
Better reduce ROF (change upgrade modifiers) for AG and TAG because is main reason why AG&TAG so strong
and anyway i see my cannonfix and mg fix better :)
anyway, your fix better than no fix at all

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Iluvalar » 26 Apr 2012, 16:59

Cyborg Flamer incend.damage 22->20 The cyborg flamers are just ok, they dont need any change if they dont lead to OP inferno or plasmite
Inferno price 80->90 incend.radius 64->48 incend.damage 40->36 The incen radius is part of the unit design, not balance. The flamer evolve to shoot into mass of cheap units and it fill a purpose.
Plasmite price 80->120 incend.radius 96->60 incend.damage 63->50
Minipod range 1152->1088
MRA damage 34->30 reload 145->165 Leave the minipod alone and nerf that one correctly instead. The accuracy bonus it gained was twice that much. I believe the MRA need to be in the low tier. It's a life saver for fighting both cyborgs and structures but it should be deceiving on htrack and tracks.
AG price 100->110 damage 20->18
TAG price 100->120 damage 30->26
AC damage 35->40
MC price 150->120 build points 500->425, research points 4800->3600 Cannons : You already nerf the flamers, the rockets and the MG. I'd wait to see the impact it have before boosting the cannons.
HPV price 175->145 build points 700->500, research points 7200->4800
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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by NoQ » 26 Apr 2012, 17:53

Ok, another attempt.
The list below still describes changes by comparing with the current balance (not with the previous version of the mod).

Inferno price 80->90 incend.radius 64->48 incend.damage 40->36
Plasmite price 80->120 incend.radius 96->60 incend.damage 63->50
Minipod range 1152->1088
MRA damage 34->28 reload time 145->165
AG fire pause 3->4
TAG price 100->120 fire pause 3->4
AG Cyborg fire pause 4->5 damage 20->18
MC research points 4800->3600
HPV research points 7200->4800
MG ROF upgrades 15%/30%/45% -> 17%/34%/50%.
The incen radius is part of the unit design, not balance. The flamer evolve to shoot into mass of cheap units and it fill a purpose.
The main problem is that if incendiary radius is above 64, it starts to cause burn damage to hardpoints. With incendiary radius below 64, hardpoints don't burn, allowing to counter flamers effectively. See also the flamers thread.
Leave the minipod alone
tmp500 was asking for this in his thread, i think. Minipods range was once boosted from 8.0 to 9.0, but they were quite useful even at 8.0, so i think 8.5 should be still fine.

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Reg312 » 26 Apr 2012, 19:06

i think cyborg flamers a bit OP in early game (agreed with tmp)
i think to adjust them price&time of first flamer researches can be increased (flamer and flamer damage upgrades)

agreed about mini-pod
high-oil games have some unbalanced things in early game,
i think build time for mini-rockets and ligh cannons can be reduced for high-oil games

.. eh i have many suggestions as well as always :)

@NoQ: whirlwind/hurricane have higher ROF than AG, it should much be stronger in 3.1, but i did not tested it carefully

incediary radius: this should be tested! Iluvalar dont panic, better test :)

cannons: better improve assault cannon (make it as replacement for ligh cannon -> reduce price and build time)

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Cyp » 26 Apr 2012, 19:47

Reg312 wrote:Cyp said something about FIX for ROF
...
The fix was recently last year, and should make it more like 2.3's ROF.

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Iluvalar » 26 Apr 2012, 21:18

NoQ wrote:
The incen radius is part of the unit design, not balance. The flamer evolve to shoot into mass of cheap units and it fill a purpose.
The main problem is that if incendiary radius is above 64, it starts to cause burn damage to hardpoints. With incendiary radius below 64, hardpoints don't burn, allowing to counter flamers effectively. See also the flamers thread.
I believe the solution here is to make the thermal armor and weapon modifiers work on damage. That would make the walls resistant enough even if not totally impervious.
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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by NoQ » 26 Apr 2012, 21:24

Iluvalar wrote:I believe the solution here is to make the thermal armor and weapon modifiers work on damage. That would make the walls resistant enough even if not totally impervious.
It is obvious that it should be fixed, but it wasn't yet. I can't do that via a mod either. The "it should be fixed" talk has proven pointless. It's fine, cause there are much more important things to fix. So i'm just trying to make a temporary fix by reducing incendiary damage instead.

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by crass » 26 Apr 2012, 22:13

NoQ wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:I believe the solution here is to make the thermal armor and weapon modifiers work on damage. That would make the walls resistant enough even if not totally impervious.
It is obvious that it should be fixed, but it wasn't yet. I can't do that via a mod either. The "it should be fixed" talk has proven pointless. It's fine, cause there are much more important things to fix. So i'm just trying to make a temporary fix by reducing incendiary damage instead.
pointless in that Cyp don't want to fix it?

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by NoQ » 26 Apr 2012, 22:31

Nerfed flamers a bit more after the last game.
Flamer research points 600->1000
Inferno price 80->110 incend.radius 64->48 incend.damage 40->32
Plasmite price 80->130 incend.radius 96->60 incend.damage 63->50
Minipod range 1152->1088
MRA damage 34->28 reload time 145->165
AG fire pause 3->4
TAG price 100->120 fire pause 3->4
AG Cyborg fire pause 4->5 damage 20->18
MC research points 4800->3600
HPV research points 7200->4800
MG ROF upgrades 15%/30%/45% -> 17%/34%/50%.

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Iluvalar
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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Iluvalar » 26 Apr 2012, 22:35

You need to do something about incendiary mortars.
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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by NoQ » 27 Apr 2012, 00:39

Emm. Any particular ideas? Cause i don't have an opinion on incendiary mortars yet :oops:

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Iluvalar » 27 Apr 2012, 01:51

They are crazy too strong, like 300% the decent strength. If you get shot by an timely incendiary mortar, and you dont yourself have an arty strat, your next hope is on the vengeance gauss (40 minutes later). And i'm not joking.
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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by Reg312 » 27 Apr 2012, 04:49

Iluvalar wrote:They are crazy too strong, like 300% the decent strength. If you get shot by an timely incendiary mortar, and you dont yourself have an arty strat, your next hope is on the vengeance gauss (40 minutes later). And i'm not joking.
mantis body can resist incendiary mortars, there is no 300%
reduce incendiary damage or may be incendiary radius

ripples rockets very good to kill incendiary mortars, make 2-3 ripple rockets tanks and make some CB

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Re: Yet another balance proposal.

Post by NoQ » 27 Apr 2012, 08:25

Decreased their burn damage to that of flamer borg and inferno (which is already known to be not too much) and increased price.
Flamer research points 600->1000
Inferno price 80->110 incend.radius 64->48 incend.damage 40->32
Thermite Cyborg incend.damage 38->32
Plasmite price 80->130 incend.radius 96->60 incend.damage 63->50
Incendiary Mortar price 150->200 incend.damage 30->22
Incendiary Howitzer price 250->300 incend.damage 60->32
Minipod range 1152->1088
MRA damage 34->28 reload time 145->165
AG fire pause 3->4
TAG price 100->120 fire pause 3->4
AG Cyborg fire pause 4->5 damage 20->18
MG ROF upgrades 15%/30%/45% -> 17%/34%/50%.
MC research points 4800->3600
HPV research points 7200->4800

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