my two cents for beta balance

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(Master releases & 3.X)

Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Giani » 14 Apr 2012, 03:13

Iluvalar wrote:it's not exactly the ZZZ but the synch mechanic that delay the orders. That give more time for flamers to move before the enemy player go back.

Beside that, the infermo and plasmite are op since a long time, it is in that balance proposition i made months ago...

Some light flamers were killing my python-tracks-lancer & python-tracks-MRA...
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby NoQ » 14 Apr 2012, 05:05

Giani wrote:The flamers will burn your hovers...
Dude you're so naive. They will never even fire a single shot.
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Reg312 » 14 Apr 2012, 12:54

tmp500 wrote: i will never understand how flamers can bring down a concrete building...


its bug,
inferno have damage of 2 parts
1) one-time damage
2) continious damage per second, but only on objects which stay on in-flamed area

second part of damage does not affected by damage modifier (10% flamer to hardcrete)

for example, if inferno have 40 damage, and hardpoint have 15 armor
then total damage can be: (40*10% - 15) + (40 - 15)*5 = ~130
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby NoQ » 14 Apr 2012, 14:17

Reg312: I repeat my question again. How can a hardpoint be affected by incendiary damage of flamer or inferno or plasmite at all? Ground flamers only cause incendiary damage to moving objects, don't they?
In fact, i've never seen flamers destroy walls or hardened towers easily. Though i've seen this happen when inferno bombs are used, of course.
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Reg312 » 14 Apr 2012, 16:49

NoQ wrote:Reg312: I repeat my question again. How can a hardpoint be affected by incendiary damage of flamer or inferno or plasmite at all? Ground flamers only cause incendiary damage to moving objects, don't they?
In fact, i've never seen flamers destroy walls or hardened towers easily. Though i've seen this happen when inferno bombs are used, of course.


moving objects? who said that? (noob? hahaha) incendiary damage from thermite bombs works exactly same way as incendiary damage from inferno....
why you cannot understand, thermite bombs have 350 damage per second (upgraded) and inferno have only 70 damage per second, if structure have upgraded armor (40? 50?) then inferno will be uneffetive just because structre have thermal armor

some facts
1) incendiary damage does not stack, so you can use 10 inferno or 1 inferno you will get same effect
(but you need 10 inferno to cover are with fire, otherwise you cant burn defenses)
2) incendiary damage actually applies only if whole target stay on in-flamed tile
flamers make some square inflamed, and if your trget in this area then target gets incnediary damage
*try attack dragon body with flamer, dragon will never burn up because dragon have large size
3) next you need know, each flamer have different radius of incendiary damage
flamer: 32
inferno: 96
thermite bombs: 192

so, if you use 1 thermite bomb then you have 100% chance to make area in-flamed and burn-up hardpoins/tanks
to burn-up dragon body with flamer you need more than 1 flamer to cover area with fire
*if unit leaves in-flamed area then this unit will get lesser incendiary damage
5) How kill hardpoints with inferno:
5.1) better if uou see lines of hardpoints - inferno fire wil be effective and applied more to 1 object
5.2) you need cover with fire larger area
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Cyp » 14 Apr 2012, 17:23

Reg312 wrote:...
3) next you need know, each flamer have different radius of incendiary damage
flamer: 32
inferno: 96
thermite bombs: 192


This means that regular flamers can't damage hardpoints with incendary damage, but infero does. Since the flame projectile hits the edge of the hardpoint (or bunker or tower or whatever), and incendary damage is only applied if the centre of the hardpoint is within the radius of the impact location. (The radius of the hardpoint varies from 64 to 64*√2 ≈ 90.50966799187808312, depending on whether the impact site is on a face or an edge.)

Reg312 wrote:...
5.1) better if uou see lines of hardpoints - inferno fire wil be effective and applied more to 1 object
...


Actually no, since penetrating projectiles can only penetrate tanks, not structures (such as hardpoints). Unless you can get the infero to hit almost exactly between two hardpoints, then the incendary damage can affect both.
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Reg312 » 14 Apr 2012, 17:28

Cyp wrote:regular flamers can't damage hardpoints with incendary damage
...


i think 10-20 cyborg flamers can cover enough area with fire and do incendiary damage..
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby NoQ » 14 Apr 2012, 19:43

incendiary damage from thermite bombs works exactly same way as incendiary damage from inferno....
No! If you see the fire of flamer or inferno, and you don't move, you don't get damaged by incendiary damage at all. This also applies to buildings But you do in case of bombs or laser satellites. I'll make a vid as soon as possible.
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Reg312 » 14 Apr 2012, 19:52

NoQ wrote:
incendiary damage from thermite bombs works exactly same way as incendiary damage from inferno....
No! If you see the fire of flamer or inferno, and you don't move, you don't get damaged by incendiary damage at all. This also applies to buildings But you do in case of bombs or laser satellites. I'll make a vid as soon as possible.


i've tested/debugged incendiary damage, and in my tests target did not move..
if your target does not get incendiary damage this means only that target was out of area
its hard to burn target by 1 flamer..
so please use small light bodies in your tests.
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Giani » 14 Apr 2012, 20:23

Reg312 wrote:
NoQ wrote:
incendiary damage from thermite bombs works exactly same way as incendiary damage from inferno....
No! If you see the fire of flamer or inferno, and you don't move, you don't get damaged by incendiary damage at all. This also applies to buildings But you do in case of bombs or laser satellites. I'll make a vid as soon as possible.


i've tested/debugged incendiary damage, and in my tests target did not move..
if your target does not get incendiary damage this means only that target was out of area
its hard to burn target by 1 flamer..
so please use small light bodies in your tests.

Or try 3 flamers atacking 3 tanks?
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Giani » 14 Apr 2012, 20:31

I checked the guide, and the assault cannon has 40 ROF and 35 damage and the medium cannon has 15 ROF and 60 damage.
The medium cannon has more hp and more damage too. And the medium cannon costs 1/2 to research... O_o
Now i understand what you mean...
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Reg312 » 14 Apr 2012, 20:50

Giani wrote:I checked the guide, and the assault cannon has 40 ROF and 35 damage and the medium cannon has 15 ROF and 60 damage.
The medium cannon has more hp and more damage too. And the medium cannon costs 1/2 to research... O_o
Now i understand what you mean...


assault cannon have only 2500 weight and can be faster on python tracks than medium cannon with 5000 weight.
also assault cannon have 800 build points and medium cannon have 500 build points (build points is invisible property and it affects only high oil games in most cases)
this means medium cannon faster to produce (time of productions is very valuable for high-oil games)
in my tests medium cannon vs assault cannon, medium cannon was stronger and killed assault cannon 1v1 in each test

Giani wrote:Or try 3 flamers atacking 3 tanks?


i think 3 flamers vs 3 tanks is stronger than 1 flamer vs 1 tank.
signle flamer cannot burn 1 medium tanks in most cases
but 10 flamers can burn 10 tanks ((not all of them..) because they cover whole area with file
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Giani » 15 Apr 2012, 00:32

Reg312 wrote:
Giani wrote:Or try 3 flamers atacking 3 tanks?


i think 3 flamers vs 3 tanks is stronger than 1 flamer vs 1 tank.
signle flamer cannot burn 1 medium tanks in most cases
but 10 flamers can burn 10 tanks (not all of them..) because they cover whole area with fire


That's the reason of why i said it.
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby Cyp » 15 Apr 2012, 07:51

Reg312 wrote:
Cyp wrote:regular flamers can't damage hardpoints with incendary damage
...


i think 10-20 cyborg flamers can cover enough area with fire and do incendiary damage..


Covering "enough" area with fire has no effect. Only covering the exact centre of a structure/droid has any (and full) effect of incendary damage.

(Not saying it should be like that, just that it is.)
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Re: my two cents for beta balance

Postby NoQ » 15 Apr 2012, 18:33

Since flame projectile is blocked by walls, it can never reach the center of a wall/hardpoint, which proves my statement (?)
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