How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derricks?

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)

Which solution do you like the most?

Poll ended at 09 Mar 2012, 14:31

Allow trucks to take over enemy partially-built structures (including derricks) by continuing building from where the enemy trucks left off, and finishing them up. (May only work if no enemy trucks are currently working on building the structure.)
9
14%
Allow trucks to demolish enemy partially-built structures (including derricks) while no enemy trucks are working on them. (The rate at when they're demolished may be reduced for enemy structures.)
6
9%
Reducing the time that oil wells burn in proportion to how complete the derrick was upon destruction (meaning that, if the derrick was only slightly built, then the well would be on fire for like only 1 second).
12
18%
Only set the well on fire if the derrick was already completed when it was destroyed.
11
17%
Give trucks the ability to capture enemy structures, including derricks, regardless of how complete they are (similar to NEXUS Link Turrets, though probably much less powerful).
3
5%
Have incomplete structures decay (auto-demolish), and eventually disappear, over time if they're not being worked on. (For Oil Derricks, they would not cause the well to catch on fire upon disappearing.)
9
14%
Add a price to Oil Derricks.
8
12%
Other. (Please explain.)
4
6%
This shouldn't be fixed at all!
3
5%
 
Total votes: 65

zany
Trained
Trained
Posts: 303
Joined: 20 Sep 2011, 07:04

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by zany »

what about limiting the number of derricks to 4 for each fully built power stations?
User avatar
Shadow Wolf TJC
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1047
Joined: 16 Apr 2011, 05:12
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC »

@ Cyp: True. We could've, say, slapped a price on Oil Derricks, or allowed trucks to demolish incomplete oil derricks, in addition to reducing burn times proportionally.

Although the change was implemented, it will need some testing in order to determine if something else needs to be done in order to fix the problem of partially-built derricks. If it turns out that we do need to decide on a new change to implement, then I'd probably want to create a new thread, with a new poll, for discussing and voting on that, so, if you want, this thread here can be locked. I've already shut down the polls for now.
Creator of Warzone 2100: Contingency!
Founder of Wikizone 2100: http://wikizone2100.wikia.com/wiki/Wikizone_2100
zany
Trained
Trained
Posts: 303
Joined: 20 Sep 2011, 07:04

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by zany »

speaking of testing these changes just how many beta releases will there be before there is a final?
User avatar
Shadow Wolf TJC
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1047
Joined: 16 Apr 2011, 05:12
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC »

Who knows? :dontknow:
Creator of Warzone 2100: Contingency!
Founder of Wikizone 2100: http://wikizone2100.wikia.com/wiki/Wikizone_2100
User avatar
Emdek
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1329
Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 13:14
Location: Poland
Contact:

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Emdek »

zany, between 1 and ∞. ;-)
I would guess that we will end up around beta10.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.


Beware! Mad Qt Evangelist.
User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by JDW »

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:Although the change was implemented, it will need some testing in order to determine if something else needs to be done in order to fix the problem of partially-built derricks. If it turns out that we do need to decide on a new change to implement, then I'd probably want to create a new thread, with a new poll, for discussing and voting on that, so, if you want, this thread here can be locked. I've already shut down the polls for now.
We'll just have to play and see how the change feels now as opposed to how it felt when it had full burn time. Building incomplete derricks right in the heart of the enemy base is one of the favorite moves of some pros on the popular TokenRing map. We'll probably be playing this map a lot in the coming days.

You're welcome to join us if you like.
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce
User avatar
bendib
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1011
Joined: 29 Aug 2010, 05:22
Location: Imeuta
Contact:

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by bendib »

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote: Although the change was implemented, it will need some testing in order to determine if something else needs to be done in order to fix the problem of partially-built derricks. If it turns out that we do need to decide on a new change to implement, then I'd probably want to create a new thread, with a new poll, for discussing and voting on that, so, if you want, this thread here can be locked. I've already shut down the polls for now.
Shadow: Don't get me wrong, I like what you are trying to do for the community and game, and I know your heart is in the right place, but I think that further tampering with derricks would be very detrimental to the game. The polls have shown that people don't like further changes. Half building an oil derrick is just strategy. As Wisler said, the devs are fixing bugs which actually make the game more interesting. Please, drop this issue. I've played beta 5 and I think that the change is just fine, so long as no other changes are made.

-Subsentient
Also known as Subsentient.
User avatar
aubergine
Professional
Professional
Posts: 3459
Joined: 10 Oct 2010, 00:58
Contact:

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by aubergine »

Maybe we need a system for testing out new balance changes...

So, just as we have master snapshots and betas and full releases currently, have a "Balance Experiment" release in which some area of balance is changed and people are invited to play it and tell us what they think ...without conducting any polls or telling them what has been changed.

That way, people aren't making presumptions about how the game will be affected, they have to just play it and see what's different then let us know if they like it...

The balance experiment releases will be clearly marked as "we've changed something, we're not telling you what, if the majority of people testing this release like it we'll incorporate it in to the game".

There would be no more than 6 of these per year, we don't want to overload testers, and we want to have each experiment run for at least a month.

What do you think?
"Dedicated to discovering Warzone artefacts, and sharing them freely for the benefit of the community."
-- https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/display/GO
Reg312
Regular
Regular
Posts: 681
Joined: 25 Mar 2011, 18:36

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Reg312 »

@aubergine it impossible to play game when you dont know that was changed
half-build derricks is not balance change, its gameplay

in each balance change topic we can find or we will find 1 or 2 disagreed person :)
User avatar
effigy
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1217
Joined: 22 Jan 2010, 03:21
Contact:

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by effigy »

@aubergine: This was done with targeting some time ago. These days it's not hard those who wish to figure it out in a technical sense.

IMO, this should be done by releasing mods/map-mods.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241
User avatar
Iluvalar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1828
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 18:44

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Iluvalar »

aubergine wrote: The balance experiment releases will be clearly marked as "we've changed something, we're not telling you what, if the majority of people testing this release like it we'll incorporate it in to the game".

There would be no more than 6 of these per year, we don't want to overload testers, and we want to have each experiment run for at least a month.

What do you think?
I did that for NRS, mostly posting the changelog after a couple of games.

But, you must be aware, I made balance changes around v54 (dec. 15) that slowly changed the habit of the players. The last change I made to correct that was in v100. So we got 3 months and 46 versions needed to see the habit changing and correcting it properly (is still have too much borg rushers in my mod, but they now lose more often than they win...)

That would never work if we do polls and huge discussion of 1 month between each little change. We need someone or a small group with the skills and the capacity to make such change in a boring mod. We need the capacity to promise them that the final result will be used. Per told me that my last balance proposition would be at least tested correctly, but he lied. It never made it into the game, but still players found a way to complain about it...
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
Per
Warzone 2100 Team Member
Warzone 2100 Team Member
Posts: 3780
Joined: 03 Aug 2006, 19:39

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Per »

Iluvalar wrote:Per told me that my last balance proposition would be at least tested correctly, but he lied. It never made it into the game
I said no such thing. I don't even know what "tested correctly" means. :annoyed:
User avatar
effigy
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1217
Joined: 22 Jan 2010, 03:21
Contact:

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by effigy »

Iluvalar wrote:....
It never made it into the game, but still players found a way to complain about it...
I insist these things should be promoted with a mod either in the Showcase or Development forum.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241
User avatar
Iluvalar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1828
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 18:44

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Iluvalar »

yeah, I recall I asked you if I could have the chance to have it tested in a release if I made that cherry-pick balance. Obviously, I spent my time to make it. So you must have told me something reassuring about that...

But you just made me waste my time, it never made it trough a single release...
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
User avatar
Iluvalar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1828
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 18:44

Re: How to fix the problem with oil-denying half-built derri

Post by Iluvalar »

effigy wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:....
It never made it into the game, but still players found a way to complain about it...
I insist these things should be promoted with a mod either in the Showcase or Development forum.
So ? How was mine ? You probably hosted a dozen of time now with plenty of players I guess... :roll:
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
Post Reply