Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

[JDW]

Also, what happens if an enemy is demolishing a building with one of their trucks and then I wait until it's <50% and send 2 of my trucks to rebuild it?

if 2 trucks build structure, who got it ? (i mean 2 trucks from opposing teams)

If your truck is in the process of building a derrick, your enemy's truck should not be able to touch it at all. Enemy should only have access to it if it is left incomplete.

I don't see need for requirement to complete at least 49% to take it over, it should belong to the one who finishes it ...

I agree.

[Reg312]

some structure can be incomplete 99%, why it should belong to enemy if he complete this 1%?

"The would be delay (at least 10 seconds) before structure would turn neutral" - player must spent power to get new structure,
my variant with 51% takes power into account, your variant - not

anyway, technical detail should decide developer, best way is simplest and cleanest way

[Emdek]

If your truck is in the process of building a derrick, your enemy's truck should not be able to touch it at all. Enemy should only have access to it if it is left incomplete.

Exactly. Others trucks shouldn't be allowed to interact with structure which is currently worked on (finishing or demolishing), it should be able to do that only after idling delay (excluding that caused by lack of resources - when truck still "beams" but does nothing yet).

Reg312, it takes power into account, delay could depend also on time / power spent by truck on building it (but that was for decay delay, but can apply also to this).

[JDW]

some structure can be incomplete 99%, why it should belong to enemy if he complete this 1%?

"The would be delay (at least 10 seconds) before structure would turn neutral" - player must spent power to get new structure,
my variant with 51% takes power into account, your variant - not

anyway, technical detail should decide developer, best way is simplest and cleanest way

Better yet, let a truck demolish the enemy half-build derrick, and rebuild his own derrick over it. He has no advantage at all now, 1% or 99%.

So whatever a player has constructed, it is all useless to the enemy who needs to now deconstruct the half-build and then rebuild his own derrick. Fair for everyone. Mind you, I am only talking about incomplete derricks, a.k.a , half built derricks. Full derricks, of course, should be gunned down to be taken over.

[Jorzi]

I agree we would need some developer input to decide what is doable and what is not.
However, I don't see why capturing enemy buidings would be unfair. Building in enemy territory should have its risks. This would also discourage truck rushing since it can be turned against you.

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

some structure can be incomplete 99%, why it should belong to enemy if he complete this 1%?

"The would be delay (at least 10 seconds) before structure would turn neutral" - player must spent power to get new structure,
my variant with 51% takes power into account, your variant - not

anyway, technical detail should decide developer, best way is simplest and cleanest way

Better yet, let a truck demolish the enemy half-build derrick, and rebuild his own derrick over it. He has no advantage at all now, 1% or 99%.

So whatever a player has constructed, it is all useless to the enemy who needs to now deconstruct the half-build and then rebuild his own derrick. Fair for everyone. Mind you, I am only talking about incomplete derricks, a.k.a , half built derricks. Full derricks, of course, should be gunned down to be taken over.

I second JDW's proposition. By allowing players to complete half-built structures that were originally started by enemy players, and thus, taking control over them, I fear that it would open a can of worms in which more important structures, such as fortresses, could be stolen from enemy players as they were being built, by removing the enemy builders (and their guards if need be), then sending your own builders to complete the structure.

On the other hand, if players were given the ability to demolish enemy half-built structures, then it would solve the problem of players denying their opponents oil resources by building incomplete derricks on them, and it would do so without creating even more problems in the process. To ensure that trucks can't just demolish enemy structures as they are actively being built, either they should be denied the ability to demolish structures if their owner is currently working on building them (my preferred solution), or the rate at which they demolish said structure should be reduced so that it wouldn't exceed the rate at which the enemy's trucks are building the structure.

[JDW]

However, I don't see why capturing enemy buidings would be unfair.

When this discussion began on the IRC, it was only about half-built derricks, but I noticed that somewhere along this thread there was talk about allowing trucks to take over incomplete buildings of the opponent.

I just wanted to point out that as we have limits over how many structures of a particular type a player is allowed to build, there would be a need to address the issue when the limit has been reached and a player cannot take over anymore incomplete structures, but of course the project team would understand that, I'm just mentioning it here for everyone else. Anyhow, my primary concern is half-built derricks which do not have any such limit.

[Emdek]

Shadow Wolf TJC, it don't need to open can with worms.
There could be various limits, like disallowing at all taking over of structures in close proximity (maybe 10 tiles?) of player base (HQ, and disallow taking over it, like other buildings that would bypass limits - only allow to demolish them).
Also delay after which structure would turn neutral could depend on proximity of base and cost / time spent on creating structure by last player that worked on it.
Also we would need to disallow taking over structures that weren't yet researched by player.

[JDW]

it don't need to open can with worms.

[Iluvalar]

Your demolition idea is not bad, but it assume that the enemy truck went away and took vacations ?

What if you have tanks or towers around the derrick ? They will shoot it and set it to burn before you can demolish it properly. You will still use DPS to counter a 0$ building while the truck is on loose and building more.

[aubergine]

Just a random note: I've seen that ally trucks can actually help me finish one of my constructions. This happens in a skirmish where I ally with an AI, then both of us try and build a derrick on the same oil resource. If I get there first, the AI truck still comes along and starts it's build, but because I've already started building it goes in to "help build" mode (I assume this is done in the C++ code somewhere) and the derrick gets built a little quicker.

[Emdek]

What if you have tanks or towers around the derrick ? They will shoot it and set it to burn before you can demolish it properly.

If they are there they have chance to destroy or drive away enemy truck.
Also when structure will turn neutral after delay then they should stop targeting it as they don't target other neutral structures (currently only features).

aubergine, this is known bug, it has ticket somewhere AFAIR.

[aubergine]

@Emdek maybe allowing allies to co-operate on constructions would be a good thing though? Would add an extra reason to work more closely with allies. And it would open lots of opportunities when AIs are collaborating with each other...

[Emdek]

aubergine, but such thing can lead to opening can of worms.
How should be ally rewarded for such help?
He should get percentage of oil from derrick?
And what he should get for helping in building factory and other structures?

Well, we could allow that without direct rewarding - team victory is a reward then, a reward for cooperation.

[JDW]

@Emdek maybe allowing allies to co-operate on constructions would be a good thing though? Would add an extra reason to work more closely with allies. And it would open lots of opportunities when AIs are collaborating with each other...

I'm not sure I understand, ally co-operated constructions are allowed in multiplayer. The player, to whom the structure should belong, need only initialize the build, after which any ally can help with the construction, even if it is left incomplete by the owner, and so the player has completed structures faster. Allies can freely build modules though without requiring the owner of the structure to initiate the build.