Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

[Emdek]

Hmm, I didn't know about that case.
I got confused by that ticket, which was more about a bug when enemy could use it to steal building.

[JDW]

my approach would be the burn time of the well is proportional to how built the derrick was. Example a fully built and operational derrick gets destroyed the well burns for the full amount of time, whereas a half built derrick gets destroyed the well just burns for half as long.

Olson makes a very good point about burn damage. Why should a player be made to pay for the same penalty of oil-well-burn-time for both a half-build of 1% and a half-build of 99% ?

I'm with Olson on this one, the burn time should be made proportional to the percentage of the half-built derrick. And this should probably go hand-in-hand with any of the other solutions.

[NoQ]

@Emdek maybe allowing allies to co-operate on constructions would be a good thing though? Would add an extra reason to work more closely with allies. And it would open lots of opportunities when AIs are collaborating with each other...

I'm not sure I understand, ally co-operated constructions are allowed in multiplayer. The player, to whom the structure should belong, need only initialize the build, after which any ally can help with the construction, even if it is left incomplete by the owner, and so the player has completed structures faster. Allies can freely build modules though without requiring the owner of the structure to initiate the build.

Also, as far as i remember, in 2.3 when you transfer a truck that has two buildings queued, the first building order is forgotten, but the second isn't ... didn't try this on 3.1, but it's a nice way of manipulating your AI allies (:

[Emdek]

I'm with Olson on this one, the burn time should be made proportional to the percentage of the half-built derrick. And this should probably go hand-in-hand with any of the other solutions.

+1

Also for low values (maybe even up to 25%) it could be simply skipped.

[Iluvalar]

There are guides for warzone written that tell you to "cap" oils. There are many strong, low oil players, including me, who use this all the time and are strongly opposed to this idea of altering half built derricks.

I believe you are mixing 2 things : Pro players and Initiated players.

The former make choices that lead them to better chance to win when appropriate. The later do stuff that the non-initiated do not know about or do not expect to be appropriate in a mostly brainless manner.

Even if both vision is not noob-friendly, the pro players situation is GOOD and we aim that because it involve SKILL and promote clever thinking. Which lead to a game with more replayability.

The second vision is BAD because it promote flat knowledge of such weird effect and only promote imitative monkeys behaviour from who read that guide. You have no merit in the second, because you had no real choices. Such thing should be avoided in the game.

[zany]

my approach would be the burn time of the well is proportional to how built the derrick was. Example a fully built and operational derrick gets destroyed the well burns for the full amount of time, whereas a half built derrick gets destroyed the well just burns for half as long.

Olson makes a very good point about burn damage. Why should a player be made to pay for the same penalty of oil-well-burn-time for both a half-build of 1% and a half-build of 99% ?

I'm with Olson on this one, the burn time should be made proportional to the percentage of the half-built derrick. And this should probably go hand-in-hand with any of the other solutions.

if you blow something up you expect it to be on fire. it would seem odd. if it just deconstructs over time then there would be no need for the fire delay

[JDW]

if you blow something up you expect it to be on fire. it would seem odd. if it just deconstructs over time then there would be no need for the fire delay

Hi zany, you make a good argument, but I think you misinterpreted what I said,

the burn time should be made proportional to the percentage of the half-built derrick. And this should probably go hand-in-hand with any of the other solutions.

The other solution being demolish/auto-demolish.. whatever it may be. (At the moment I prefer demolish). The burn time is only when the half-built derrick is gunned down, and demolish (or some other solution) when you don't have an attack entity and you would have to use your truck instead.

If in case auto-demolish would be a better solution, then what if the derrick was accidentally gunned down in the cross-fire before it could auto-demolish itself? You would still have the burn time for the well.

[bendib]

I'm going to have an epileptic fit! You guys, stop this insanity! You're going to RUIN this great game! No other structures deconstruct themselves! And allowing enemies to construct on or deconstruct your stuff is an equally bad idea! Please! Play 3.1! See for yourself! Halfbuilds die easier! This change is very unnecessary and will cause much trouble!

Another idea!!!!

If your derrick isn't finished and is destroyed, it doesn't burn! I'm willing to compromise. That seems fair.

[Per]

I think I've suggested this before: Trucks should have 'assimilate' ability similar to Nexus Link turrets. This neatly solves the question of who should own building based on built percentages discussion above, since the accumulation of nexus points is independent of the built finished points.

PS Supreme Commander 1 worked almost exactly this way.

[effigy]

TL;DR

Remove the burn time for unfinished derricks.

[bendib]

I think I've suggested this before: Trucks should have 'assimilate' ability similar to Nexus Link turrets. This neatly solves the question of who should own building based on built percentages discussion above, since the accumulation of nexus points is independent of the built finished points.

PS Supreme Commander 1 worked almost exactly this way.

This is NOT Supreme Commander! Stop trying to turn WZ into a clone of something else please!
Why do you think I oppose these changes so strongly? Why do you think I've voted "Hell No!" on almost every change?

Because I am trying to preserve the game. It's little nuisances and quirks are part of it. They have been part of it since it's inception. Leave it.

[Emdek]

bendib, this is not museum, I guess that original authors would make similar changes that could affect gameplay if they would be still in charge of developing it (looking at changelog they made lots of changes that could be currently criticized).
But it's true that we should have mods that restores old behaviors (but for such small things they fit more into category of mutators from UT and could be simply scripts injected into game environment) or detailed options (like host settings of games like Quake or UT).
And yes, I've given examples from Unreal Tournament and Quake, but that doesn't mean that after borrowing such ideas Warzone would turn into their clones.

[effigy]

Museam...no. But it has been a staple of low oil maps. Probably a niche of duel and small 2v2?

I'm not sure why this would need changing. I recommend anyone having issues competing for oil visit IRC #warzone2100-games and try to find some one at their skill level to match up against or a pro willing to train them.

[Emdek]

effigy, to be clear, I nearly don't play MP games, I've never seen this issue but game should disallow unfair tactics (and above is one of them, exploiting price value).

[bendib]

Good god... I'm going to spare you all the long winded speech I had prepared and just say this...

Think about this for a sec. You are building a structure. it's an oil derrick. A regular structure. You stop building it in the middle of the process to take another oil that you see an enemy is headed for. That's brilliant strategy. NOT A BUG. Most (not all) of you guys don't play "hard core" (if I may use this term, no offense intended) like tmp, effigy, me, etc, do. We are the strong players, we want it to stay! Instead of trying to get it removed from the game, learn to fight it! Do it yourself, make machinegun tanks early, get mg towers, it's endless. In beta, things half built die easier, so it's not so bad. Changing this has consequences you probably won't understand until you think it through. Please, LEAVE ONE THING UNTOUCHED!!!

effigy, to be clear, I nearly don't play MP games, I've never seen this issue but game should disallow unfair tactics (and above is one of them, exploiting price value).

Three words: war is unfair.

Btw, thx effigy.