Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by curtis15 » 07 Mar 2012, 06:39

Half derricks are an essential part of the game play, just because you or somebody else does not like it when people go off and build a dozen half oils, it does not mean that it should be taken out it just means that you need a new strategy, I live in California and I go around and every other building is only half built, so if you look at the half derricks they are very realistic.
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by JDW » 07 Mar 2012, 08:48

curtis15 wrote:it just means that you need a new strategy
or perhaps faster clicking reflexes? :)
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Emdek » 07 Mar 2012, 10:15

curtis15 wrote:so if you look at the half derricks they are very realistic.
This is not simulation. ;-)

Leaving unfinished buildings is unfair, then only other solution apart delayed auto decay or taking them over after delay would be even less HP (or even one shot to kill) after leaving it for 5 seconds (those unfinished "building shields" as I've seen on some videos are simply stupid for me).
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by NoQ » 07 Mar 2012, 10:32

Perseus wrote:Don't really see the point of this, thought half builds had been dealt with - they don't have as much hp as 2.3.9. Therefore, are easily destroyed anyway. Why the need for an additional change?
Because in every game on Startup, i *have* to half-build all 9 oils at my side, otherwise enemy trucks can spoil them long before my first tank is out (especially when i'm doing tech to halftracks).

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Another solution: make a structure belong to whoever finished it. If someone from enemy team is already building it, you must distract them before trying to complete the building yourself. If trucks from one team finish a structure simultaneously, the structure belongs to whoever possesses the truck that started earlier (when a truck was interrupted, it doesn't count as "started" unless it starts again).

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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Reg312 » 07 Mar 2012, 10:48

bendib wrote:Derricks shouldn't cost anything. Anything else is a filthy mod.
its just your opinion, hunt for oil is not good. My opinion: derricks must have price.
next time when i'll play with you, i send truck to get oil on your base :twisted:
bendib wrote:EDIT: Some have said I have switched sides and am in favor of removing half builds, I am not.
ok, can you say, why you so like race of truck in such strategy game as Warzone?
i think there is 2 possibilities
1) you have not real feel how much chances got winner of truck race in low oil games
2) you dont use hunt for oil and you prefer to play high-oil or med-oil games
bendib wrote:Iluvalar: STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE GAME COMPLETELY BALANCED. It's not supposed to be completely even! You're going to make it boring!
agreed with it, but such emotions is not good tone there (hm i also have some emotions :oops: )
Perseus wrote:Don't really see the point of this, thought half builds had been dealt with - they don't have as much hp as 2.3.9. Therefore, are easily destroyed anyway. Why the need for an additional change?
half-build derricks make not a strategy but stupid hunt for oil or truck race
and really in even-balanced games (pro vs pro), more chances have player who gotten derricks earlier (clicked truck 0.1 sec earlier, or had base a bit closer to oil), and it's just stupid
in low-oil maps each oil resource are separated from another resources, so player which sent trucks a bit earlier will make half-built derricks elsewhere and in next step he will finish this derricks and get oil
you can make mg tower near derricks, but see: enemy spent 0 energy and got some oil from this derrick and you spent 100$ on MG tower, in this time your enemy can make 3 more tanks and kill your army just because he had a bit more energy and dont spent power on MG tower
curtis15 wrote:Half derricks are an essential part of the game play
Have you ever thought WHY high-oil flate games are so popular, i think one of the causes is this issue with stupid half-built derricks and huntning for oil

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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Emdek » 07 Mar 2012, 11:11

NoQ wrote:Another solution: make a structure belong to whoever finished it.
Yeah, this is what I've meant in my previous post, but I would add delay for taking them over (without it that looks like description of that old bug where AI could take over oil derrick if it would start "helping" your truck).
After 5 seconds of idling (truck was destroyed or moved away) building would become "neutral" and available to take over (to get persistent ownerships you would need to complete it, another idling would lead to making it neutral again).
Making it neutral could also lead to make using unfinished structures as shields a bit void (as neutral building shouldn't be attractive target).
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 07 Mar 2012, 12:56

I previously stated that maybe trucks could be given the ability to demolish enemy structures (at a reduced rate of course), but then I realized that it could allow players to disable enemy buildings or defenses by rushing at them with trucks and then partially demolishing it. So now, I'll propose that we limit their ability to demolish enemy structures to partially built ones instead.
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Emdek » 07 Mar 2012, 13:07

Shadow Wolf TJC, I would like more ability to finish abandoned unfinished structures as this would shorten time to complete them (which would be important in case of oil derricks, however after adding such change this players behavior would be eliminated quickly anyway).
But demolishing those unfinished structures (usually other than derricks) could be possible too.
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by bendib » 07 Mar 2012, 13:28

I don't want this changed. There are guides for warzone written that tell you to "cap" oils. There are many strong, low oil players, including me, who use this all the time and are strongly opposed to this idea of altering half built derricks, including most of the ISA, some BDCs, and other miscellanious players.. When we start making things autodemolish and such, it opens up a pandora's box. These little changes can really affect the game. Please, I implore all of you, for the future of warzone's sake, put up with half built derricks. I for one use them all the time, but I don't need to. I think it's a clever and helpful strategy, that whether or not realistic is and should be part of the game. If we do this, we need to address building towers at enemy oils. Yes?


In the 3.1 versions it's very easy to kill a half built derrick, and sure you have to wait for it to burn, but let's face it: only strong players usually use this strategy, and your opponents are generally somewhat on par with you. Play 3.1 before you judge.
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Reg312 » 07 Mar 2012, 14:15

why you fight with such changes? its clean and its will make game better.

Some of reasons why half-built derricks should be changed (fixed):
1) Make classic low-oil games more popular
i want see more players and more competiteve games (4x4, 5x5 etc) in low oil maps
many players dont like oil-hunting and truck race, and this is one of issues why such players dont like low-oil classic games

2) Players who not so familiar with current map will become less disadvantaged
*see, if player exactrly know oil positions he have much more chances to get this oil first
i lost many games only because enemies knew the map better, just send truck to exact place and you get great advantage
you got oil first => you got more energy => more research/units etc.

3) less anger in games :)
half-built derricks is just dirty tactics

another questions: how this issue can be solved (fixed)
i vote for auto-capturing unfinished buildings, if your truck finished building and you filled more than 49% of health bar - you get this building, so you need finish your half-build derrick at least at 51% before leave it

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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Jorzi » 07 Mar 2012, 14:43

I like the idea of trucks being able to capture unfinished buildings. It seems only fair that their "construction beam" can do something to enemy structures as well.
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by aubergine » 07 Mar 2012, 14:51

I like the idea of capturing unfinished buildings (with the requirement that you build at least 51% of the building and it isn't owned by an ally).

Would pose some interesting dilemmas in the JS API though - as it would need to allow my droids to complete an enemy structure. And we'd need to know what percentage complete a structure is rather than simply it's .status (BEING_BUILT, BUILT, BEING_DEMOLISHED).

Also, what happens if an enemy is demolishing a building with one of their trucks and then I wait until it's <50% and send 2 of my trucks to rebuild it?

If original construction truck(s) destroyed I still feel that constructions they started but didn't finish should start degrading after roughly 30 seconds? Legitimate player needs chance to get another truck there to finish building.
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Emdek » 07 Mar 2012, 15:08

I don't see need for requirement to complete at least 49% to take it over, it should belong to the one who finishes it and at least temporally assigned to one who currently builds it (as it could become again neutral when he is not able to complete it).
And in this case I'm not sure if we need decaying mechanism (ability to take over is enough, as it implies that we can also demolish it).
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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Reg312 » 07 Mar 2012, 15:15

Emdek wrote:I don't see need for requirement to complete at least 49% to take it over, it should belong to the one who finishes it
1. if 2 trucks build structure, who got it ? (i mean 2 trucks from opposing teams)
2. if player spent some time and power to building, its not good what he lost all it and more: his power goes to his enemy
for example, you started cannon fortress, and your enemy kiiled your trucks and finished it. i think its will be not good, WZ contains truck rushing option :)

another example: 2 trucks from opposing teams reached oil resource at same time? who get it?
truck who started 0.1 s earlier will get this resource

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Re: Demolish/Auto-demolish Half Built enemy Derricks?

Post by Emdek » 07 Mar 2012, 15:21

1. The one who started first, second is simply rejected from helping.
2. The would be delay (at least 10 seconds) before structure would turn neutral.
For deciding delay time we could also take into account if player (that one which started building) has nearby units / structures. The same could apply in cases when two trucks start at "the same time" (one will be always a bit faster anyway, at least on milliseconds level ;-)).
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