HVC n Pulse Lasers

[RBL-4NiK8r]

ok I got the latest d/l and was toying around with one the NTW maps an well I am waiting for the damn PC to hit me with VTOL's and to my shock they never made it past my front line of HVC or Hyper Volicity Cannons because they fire on VTOL's WTF AA HVC's how can that be then for more of a shock my Pulse Cannons also fire on VTOL's why all the AA stuff that should not be AA ?

Also something I brought up 10 years ago kill the weight on VTOL loads like Thermite Bombs need to come down to 5k LBS so they move faster as I stated back then they take to long to get from point A to point B. Also just cut there payload down to 1 or 2 bombs, and with Cluster Bombs take them up to like 50 bombs with like 25 damage as I recall an make them hit like 20% of the time so they go all over the place an give them some splash damage. Same with HEAP BOMB BAY give them like 150 bombs and all that crap. I will look for my old figures on this stuff and get them posted, granted they do alot better damage then 1.10 but these still need a tweak, and with all the means to kill VTOL's someone seems to hate them alot.


4nE

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Some weapons, including Machineguns, Hyper-Velocity Cannons, and Lasers, are capable of targeting both ground and air units. The guide section of the site, which you'll see on one of the tabs on top of each of this site's web pages, has detailed statistics on every weapon in the game.

[NoQ]

Mini rocket pods, twin assault guns and lasers are not bad against VTOLs. Lancer/scourge cyborgs are very nice against VTOLs.

But i've never heard of games when HPV cannon's ability to shoot VTOLs had affected the game seriously. They have bad multipliers against VTOLs and, on the other hand, are pretty expensive, so you can't make too many.

This change happened in one of the 2.3 betas.

[Iluvalar]

And the natural evolution to cannon is rail not laser ? I dont get how he got lasers and hpv on the same game... He must have toyed with the AI for a long time.

[effigy]

Or chose lasers to better deal with borgs.

IIRC HVC is also available a bit earlier than it once was, and a bit weaker.

When you say Laser Cannon I assume you're referring to Flashlight or Pulse laser. Pulse laser towers are indeed effective against VTOL, especially if you're playing the Ai. Ai still isn't very efficient with VTOL attacks.

Also, I agree about your VTOL suggestion for cluster bomb and thermite. Plasmite bombs were recently made heavier to give your AA more time to shoot them down.

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Yes I was toying around for a long time, my first major investment was HVC Mantis Hovers after losing a crap load of Lancer Hovers to Flamer Borgs that was so sad. But I took notice that all vtols coming over them were toast, and yes I got a problem with that because that's what you have AA for, if you just do cannons what's the point of doing AA for research, because you can have hardpoint HVC and tanks and the rest is a moot point. Now I can see the HVC VTOL doing other VTOLS but its a ground unit, you want AA make AA.

As for Pulse Lasers I don't even know where to begin, at that stage of the game you should HAVE AA if your using VTOLS or worried about them, as I stated years ago you can take alot of the basic upgrades for them so you get to better AA faster with less cost or time waiting. Pulse Lasers were ment for Cyborgs but they were used heavily in MP games because they would kill most hardpoints and structures from a distance and not take fire. So if you had a TURTLE PLAYER Pulse were how to go.

Bunker Busters need more range I got to go back to my old research and get back to this, also Cluster Bombs an HEAP Bomb Bay I had them changed to Bunker Buster Warhead don't ask why it works.

Also for all of uses that have no clue who I am, the simple answer would be I am the father of WZ I played thousands of games between beta and retail on Mplayer and then even more on Gamespy, plus I ran Beta Testing for NEWST and Pumpkin 2 plus one pf my pet projects for years was balancing this game because I felt T3 had a lot of issues that Pumpkin never addressed. Anyways I am going out to eat I will get back to this later today.


4nE

[effigy]

I'm still surprised that you find HVC so effective against vtol.... What kind of vtol were they anyhow? And was this against the nexus AI? I'm assuming it was and the vtol were light bodies with rockets and you had a large mass of tanks, and as I said earlier that ai sends very few vtol in to strike. I'm certainly generating a situation favorable to the argument that HVC is not over powered at killing vtol, though I'd really like to know.

I've only been playing since 2009 and Pulse and Flashlight have hit VTOL as long as I've been playing. Lasers are now not so effective against hardpoints, though they do out range 90% of direct fire weapons. They've also been effective against vtol, especially when thermal armor is low.

You might want to look at this: http://guide.wz2100.net/w/#weapontable and the rest of the guide to see how balance has changed since 2004. From what I've heard some things are quite a bit different. I don't mind lancer python tracks not being the only tank worth making, though

IIRC HVC was made versatile as part of the Flak AA replacing Cyclone AA. You need HVC to get Flak, so it seemed logical to make HVC versatile. At the same time researching lancer was rewarded by opening the door for Sunburst AA. I remember these AA changes were seen as positive (minus some complaints about not having Cyclone) since picking lancer or cannon lines vs. the mg line made it difficult to research to Whirlwind (the AA mainstay). The intention was to give cannon and rocket players easy access to AA, and also to simplify the AA part of the tree, a bit.

Flak AA seems to be mostly effective against light body vtol, though. Sunburst can hold it's weight a little better vs. medium and heavy bodies. Hurricane -> Whirlwind -> Whirlwind + missiles/laser AA is still the best VTOL defense progression, though.

[aubergine]

@4NiK8r if you want a better AI try out viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8826

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Its not that I find the HVC effective vs vtols its out of place, the whole concept of the HVC was based on a Depleted Uranium Sabot round, it shoots fast and in a straight line, you don't see tanks shooting down planes with the main cannon it don't happen. As for a mass of tanks I had about 25 HVC n 20 Lancers mixed, I was not on a low oil map and I was burning thru the tech tree to test a few things out, and no you can't justify HVC shooting at vtols to me. First you have Hurricanes & Sunburst fairly early in the tech tree and they can do some good damage to Light n Medium Body VTOLS, I will run some tests later this week once I get everything installed on my other laptop but I think AA is good if you research it and build it.

Thermite n Plasmite should have very little damage on the blast but have most of the damage in burn time, its kind of like Napalm you had the blast to spread it out over an area, but it was the burning that did the damage. Also keep in mind this would effect Hardpoints n Bunkers differently one would take more damage an the other wouldn't, it also means you would have to mix in Cluster Bombs n HEAP Bomb Bay for direct damage. Right now with 10+ Thermite vtols I can trash a base in one pass unless they got a lot of AA up.

As for Flashlight n Pulse Lasers firing on vtols I don't see that either why was this even done your
going into T3 here and you have so many means to lay waste to vtols by this time is it really needed

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Damn phone got me messed up, anyways the T3 stage has your means to deal with VTOLS, I really think Borgs should have the means to fire on vtols with pulse n all missiles but I don't agree with tanks that's just not right.

Anyways I got some more toying around today with a few different maps and I will get back to this.


4nE

[effigy]

HVC: sounds like another debate of realism vs. game mechanics. Since HVC leads to Flak AA, it makes sense. FYI, the only Depleted Uranium anything we have an mg upgrade. During the 2.3 betas HVC was penetrating since it's a preq for the rail line... that got reverted, though, since it seemed to be a bit to powerful.

bombs: I've suggested similar changes to thermite and plasmite. IMO these bombs are a lot to do with why we have so many AA options and upgrades. FlakAA is a blessing to anyone who wants to go straight to rail (on time). Likewise with Sunburst. I suppose they might be even more effective now that they've gotten smart enough to only drop as many bombs as needed on a target (vs. all 50 bombing the same factory)