Units preview. Why it should be back...

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)

Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Giani » 30 Mar 2012, 15:57

Iluvalar: if the beta players would agree whit you, they would say something in this thread. (Until now only Aubergine agrees whit you)
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Iluvalar » 04 Apr 2012, 07:21

but what exactly you don't agree ?

A) The data based mathematic demonstration that the game is skewed ~25% more toward entire luck ?
B) That you care about wz games being now determined mostly by luck ?
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby crass » 04 Apr 2012, 08:18

Iluvalar wrote:but what exactly you don't agree ?

A) The data based mathematic demonstration that the game is skewed ~25% more toward entire luck ?
B) That you care about wz games being now determined mostly by luck ?

what do you mean, wz games were always determined by luck with the non beta builds
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Iluvalar » 04 Apr 2012, 16:29

Huh ? Absolutely not.

There is some part of luck and it's good as it place even good players into losing position some time, but that part of luck is controlled to never take the big part of the game.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Giani » 04 Apr 2012, 23:44

crass wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:but what exactly you don't agree ?

A) The data based mathematic demonstration that the game is skewed ~25% more toward entire luck ?
B) That you care about wz games being now determined mostly by luck ?

what do you mean, wz games were always determined by luck with the non beta builds

+1 :)
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Giani » 04 Apr 2012, 23:48

Iluvalar:
And as JDW, said sensors arent only for artillery.
And THERE IS ENOUGH TIME to scout, and until now i saw NOBODY making fake tanks.
All the good players say that the players that only play skirmish and not mp games, they know very few about balancing. And that is the same whit you and beta.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby NoQ » 05 Apr 2012, 07:21

All the good players say that the players that only play skirmish and not mp games, they know very few about balancing.
Giani, are you good enough to have a word in this particular discussion?
I'm not.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Reg312 » 05 Apr 2012, 08:22

NoQ wrote:Giani, are you good enough to have a word in this particular discussion?
I'm not.


if you are not good enough to this discussion, then no one good enough :?
its impossible participate in Iluvalar's discussion without good mathematical background, because you can believe in his digits or dont believe and nothing more (i dont believe, but i think it can contain about 60% truth)
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby NoQ » 05 Apr 2012, 08:37

But some recent matches have shown that having failed my practice for a few months, i'm not aware of recent macromanagement developments.
I have a good enough mathematical background. It doesn't make me magically instantly understand how some of the digits were obtained, but i don't see anything clearly-wrong in them yet.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Iluvalar » 05 Apr 2012, 17:47

Reg312 wrote:its impossible participate in Iluvalar's discussion without good mathematical background, because you can believe in his digits or dont believe and nothing more (i dont believe, but i think it can contain about 60% truth)

If I was 60% in the truth, that would mean that 3.1 dont surrender ~25% of the game to pure luck but ~15%. That would still be too much since the part of luck that is preferred by warzone2100 players (pretty low I believe) was obviously already in 2.3.

And I expressed it already without mathematic content :
A) Because the research layer is not null, the game is fixed so when the unit first come out from the factory, you might already lost some chances to win.
B) Because it's a war game and the damaged player lose progressively his stuff. That advantage slowly eat the opponent chance to win until then end.
C) Because we want to encourage people to counter (strategy by design), that advantage is pretty much serious.
D) Because we are talking about the synergy of the research + design + production layers. It is the core of the game mechanic and there is nothing that should be more powerful. If there was an easy way out of that, it would be perceived as a bug and would be corrected.

All that, I hope, is obvious to rational people. So we are sure that the preview removal will degrade your chance to win. The only question is how much ? That's where my math come into play. I can calculate the adaptation window at 4m15s . That's the total amount of time you have. To which we need to subtract any scouting without the unit preview. That time represent the shift to random in the game. And it's pretty heavy.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Giani » 05 Apr 2012, 18:28

Update your computer and start playing beta and you will see that it isn't all luck.
Having two weapons is not a bad idea either...
Last edited by Giani on 20 Apr 2012, 23:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby NoQ » 05 Apr 2012, 18:41

I already said it
Proof by repeating? Doesn't work.
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Re: Units preview. Why it should be back...

Postby Giani » 05 Apr 2012, 18:43

NoQ wrote:
I already said it
Proof by repeating? Doesn't work.

"I already said it but it seems you ignored it"
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