Command center

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)

Do you like the change implemented in ticket #3055?

Yeah
3
12%
Nay
22
88%
 
Total votes : 25

Re: Command center

Postby lav_coyote25 » 31 Jan 2012, 23:47

so. i guess it doesn't matter the opinions of the community at large. your just going to go ahead with clone changes.

is it just me or what? the new master has a radar with blips etc and NO command center. the 2.3.9 has no command center and no radar , which after all stands to reason. if you don't have a source of radar, you should have no radar image. giving a radar image without having a Command Center is not a good thing. makes the game , for me at least, lacking incentive. changing the GPM at this stage of the game is STUPID. :annoyed: if your too lazy or stupid to build a command center - you shouldn't be playing this game. :annoyed:
Attachments
wz2100-20120201_143735-CAM_1A.jpg
warzone2100-master-20120130-075435-406d744 - the one with the radar map and no command center
wz2100-20120201_143819-CAM_1A.jpg
2.3.9 last before the 3.X series. - the one that has the proper display - no radar map, no command center.
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Re: Command center

Postby cybersphinx » 31 Jan 2012, 23:57

cybersphinx wrote:
effigy wrote:After the CC is destroyed you still have the mini-map, as-well-as blips... is that a feature?

Hm, I thought things should be as in 2.3.
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Re: Command center

Postby aubergine » 01 Feb 2012, 00:25

I'm going to keep playtesting the latest beta, but so far I don't like having the minimap without a CC - it just feels wrong.

I will reserve my final thoughts until I've spent a few more days playing to see if I feel differently.

EDIT: Hrm, it seems I have to build a CC to get the minimap. *is confused* I must be having a senior moment or something?
Last edited by aubergine on 01 Feb 2012, 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Command center

Postby lav_coyote25 » 01 Feb 2012, 00:31

i can not state my true feelings due to the way some here have taken exception to warnings issued etc. if you want to replace me as a moderator and get rid of me all together. do it. but don't make WarZone 2100 into a piece of excrement just because you can.
:annoyed:
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Re: Command center

Postby lav_coyote25 » 01 Feb 2012, 00:33

in campaign mode. skirmish and multiplayer you need to build. and yes it is confusing. yet another reason to stand down on changing things.
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Re: Command center

Postby cybersphinx » 01 Feb 2012, 00:36

cybersphinx wrote:
cybersphinx wrote:Hm, I thought things should be as in 2.3.
That was for 3.1 actually. Not sure what the plan for master is, but I hope for more Tetris.
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Re: Command center

Postby Rman Virgil » 01 Feb 2012, 01:26

cumandgetit wrote:as in rl i always saw the cc as the heart of your command and control . it stored total intel which was displayed on the mini map so you could coordinate your strat & tacs. the mini map also served the function of moving units.

having the minimap without a cc that has no persistent total intelligence but solely exists for blind unit maneuver convenience over the map (without displayed intel) strikes me as a gaming plus without violating the essence of wz game play.

this is how I'm reading the posts. not sure if that is the correct interpretation of the discussion though.


effigy wrote:
I feel like you understand, and agree with my previous post. However, I suppose the thread's gone beyond the first post...



Let me give this a whirl.

The Mini-Map serves 2 functions:

1.) RT Intel Display and (by way of RL Military verisimilitude) it should be linked to the CC - no CC, no Intel displayed..

2.) Facilitate Unit / Group movement in the Game World with or without Intel (compass bearings excepted). If there is no CC it can only serve this function enemy Intel blind ('Cept for what you still retain in memory from the last snap-shot you viewed before the CC was destroyed, .ie - also, this presupposes the CC still remains a pre-req to launch-begin a game).

Basically, should you lose BOTH functions when the CC is destroyed ?

# 1 for sure.

# 2, I don't think so.

What would be the positive game play experience compromised to allow # 2 without a CC ?

I really do not see what that could be. Ergo, I do not see any downside as such, nor do I see where this would violate WZ's unique identity or in any way seek to turn WZ into another RTS game. Under these terms, I can understand it as nothing more than addressing a minor design oversight in the original.

'Course I could be succumbing to an unperceived gaffe in my understanding and therefore need to be pointed in the direction of a more comprehensive appreciation of what is truly at stake here. :3

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Re: Command center

Postby lav_coyote25 » 01 Feb 2012, 01:33

Rman Virgil wrote:
The Mini-Map serves 2 functions:

1.) RT Intel Display and (by way of RL Military verisimilitude) it should be linked to the CC - no CC, no Intel displayed..

2.) Facilitate Unit / Group movement in the Game World with or without Intel (compass bearings excepted). If there is no CC it can only serve this function enemy Intel blind ('Cept for what you still retain in memory from the last snap-shot you viewed before the CC was destroyed, .ie - also, this presupposes the CC still remains a pre-req to launch-begin a game).

.


ok, i will compromise - if you have a sensor vehicle , then whatever the sensor vehicle lights up will be displayed on the radar minimap, as you still have a LOCAL sensor. all else beyond what the local sensor sees will revert to blackout. this is the only way i can see to compromise and have the game still hold some interest for me. no sensor vehicle or command center - then no minimap. simple. easy to do. right. :hmm:
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Re: Command center

Postby Rman Virgil » 01 Feb 2012, 01:47

Rman Virgil wrote:
The Mini-Map serves 2 functions:

1.) RT Intel Display and (by way of RL Military verisimilitude) it should be linked to the CC - no CC, no Intel displayed..

2.) Facilitate Unit / Group movement in the Game World with or without Intel (compass bearings excepted). If there is no CC it can only serve this function enemy Intel blind ('Cept for what you still retain in memory from the last snap-shot you viewed before the CC was destroyed, .ie - also, this presupposes the CC still remains a pre-req to launch-begin a game).

.


lav_coyote25 wrote:ok, i will compromise - if you have a sensor vehicle , then whatever the sensor vehicle lights up will be displayed on the radar minimap, as you still have a LOCAL sensor. all else beyond what the local sensor sees will revert to blackout. this is the only way i can see to compromise and have the game still hold some interest for me. no sensor vehicle or command center - then no minimap. simple. easy to do. right. :hmm:


I didn't even think of that exception - allow MM with Intel Displayed without CC but with Local Sensor, Tower or Unit, present. Good one, Lav ! Though, that may require a bit of work to implement.

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Re: Command center

Postby effigy » 01 Feb 2012, 02:47

hmm... that sounds better than what's going on atm, imo, but I don't see how it's more logical than the proposition to remove all blips from the mini map when the CC is destroyed. I think of the mini-map as something drawn by a cartographer, and therefore it's a static document that could exist outside of a 'live-feed' (the CC). I think of the CC as the object that makes the 'live-feed' possible; it serves as the relay between sensors and mini-map.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241
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Re: Command center

Postby lav_coyote25 » 01 Feb 2012, 06:16

http://buildbot.wz2100.net/files/warzon ... 95cb1b.exe

still has that aberrant mini map with no command center. :annoyed:
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Re: Command center

Postby lav_coyote25 » 01 Feb 2012, 06:35

and i just installed the new 3.1 beta release. the aberrant mini map is also there. warzone2100-3.1_beta1.exe

oh well. i guess what the community wants doesn't much matter now. :) have fun guys.
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Re: Command center

Postby Rman Virgil » 01 Feb 2012, 08:26

effigy wrote:hmm... that sounds better than what's going on atm, imo, but I don't see how it's more logical than the proposition to remove all blips from the mini map when the CC is destroyed. I think of the mini-map as something drawn by a cartographer, and therefore it's a static document that could exist outside of a 'live-feed' (the CC). I think of the CC as the object that makes the 'live-feed' possible; it serves as the relay between sensors and mini-map.
(Italic added by me for emphasis. RV)

Another good point, vividly expressed. :3

Something else that always annoyed me was the loss of basic compass orientation back to your base if you were away some were else on the map and your CC / MM goes down. Just because you lose the CC shouldn't mean you are rendered completely disoriented, as if with no quick sense of the cardinal directions and have to fumble around the game world to get your PoV orientation back to your main base and quickly attend being under attack. Now THAT just seems an unnecessary, blatantly artificial, and frustrating handicap; contrary to common sense even. O_o You can always tie-up a unit grouping shortcut to work around this but that's a bunk complexification you are compelled to because of a design oversight, imo. :hmm:

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Re: Command center

Postby cybersphinx » 01 Feb 2012, 09:00

You can always select trucks/factories/research labs from the build/manufacture/research icons (assuming that you have at least one of those close to where your base was).
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Re: Command center

Postby Rman Virgil » 01 Feb 2012, 09:25

cybersphinx wrote:You can always select trucks/factories/research labs from the build/manufacture/research icons (assuming that you have at least one of those close to where your base was).


True. :3

Still, I think doing it through the MM feels more natural and fluid than going through the menu icons. Basically, I'm looking at one sure, quick, stroke which is what burning a group key shortcut (w/sys unit set to hold position) achieves over scroll-click-scroll-click... :hmm:

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