Current Balance poll

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)

The balance for master is

Perfect
1
4%
Good
8
31%
OK
7
27%
Is fair for the most part (explain)
5
19%
Bad (explain)
0
No votes
Give me 1.10 balance! (even know we all know that wasn't perfectly balanced...)
5
19%
 
Total votes: 26

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Staff
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Current Balance poll

Post by Staff » 15 Jan 2012, 05:44

Speak your mind!
Sorry, this account has been deactivated.
Please post issues in Website feedback instead, only Moderators can read things there.

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NoQ
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by NoQ » 15 Jan 2012, 09:53

Underpowered small bodies are still bothering me. Overpowered assault guns too. I didn't yet have a chance to test the ECM jammer (i don't even know where it is in the research tree).

Early-game balance is excellent and should not be touched :3

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Berg
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by Berg » 15 Jan 2012, 10:39

Start from scratch and redo it where needed.
Don't try to force tactics to favor only one type of weapon..

The more you try to fix an already broken balance the worse it seems.

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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by Per » 15 Jan 2012, 12:52

NoQ wrote:I didn't yet have a chance to test the ECM jammer (i don't even know where it is in the research tree).
It isn't, yet. You need a mod to activate it.

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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by JDW » 15 Jan 2012, 18:31

I like that players either decide to go all cannons or all rockets. At least they aren't chasing just one weapon line like some time ago when everyone used to race for assault machineguns (However, it seems like nobody is making much of this now).

The only thing I feel is lacking with balance is that there are lots of technologies that aren't ever considered as of any use.
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by Iluvalar » 15 Jan 2012, 20:12

I voted "fair" because over all there is 4-5 good tech path that lead to known good material, or nice adapt option. However, the more we tone down those components that we pursue the more there will be more options opened in the tech tree. This would not change the "fairness" of the tech tree, since we already have enough option, but it will increase the fun of it, as we'll see much more people coming up with much more interesting new gameplay.

Even if, I still believe that it would be even a lot better with a new tech tree that isn't all interwined like the one we feature now.
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by aubergine » 16 Jan 2012, 04:12

I think the balance is fairly OK, but like others are saying there's a whole bunch of stuff that never really gets used.

Perhaps a starting point might be to get more data about how people are playing the game - could some sort of "allow anonymous feedback" option be created, which (at the end of a game) would to a HTTP post to a website script. The results would be gathered for a few months and then you'd be able to see what people are researching (in what order) and what weapons, turrets, etc., they are using most.

This way you would get more quantitative metrics on which to base discussions around how to change game balance.

For example, how many people use commanders? How many people use CB towers (especially the VTOL ones)? How many people use EMP (mortars, towers, and bombs)? Without really having a representative set of data gathered over a few months, it's going to be somewhat difficult to make proper judgements about things.

Also, this sort of data would allow you to monitor the effects of balance changes - are people playing the game more or less, are they changing their research and droid types?
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by effigy » 16 Jan 2012, 04:49

anonymous usage sounds like a great way to match up facts with opinions.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by NoQ » 16 Jan 2012, 09:11

CB towers
Absolutely necessary.
VTOL ones
Right, no one uses those.
anonymous feedback
That's a pretty bad way to do that, i think, because 95% of the games are played by newbies who don't really understand what is good and what is bad, and i'm not even talking about high-oil games with completely different balance that are still popular.

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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by aubergine » 16 Jan 2012, 12:41

95%? - got data to back that up? ;)

Anon opt-in usage reporting would give that sort of info. It would also make tutorial writing, UI design, feature deprecation, etc., a lot easier. It allows you to see the effects any changes have on how end-users are doing things.

Think of the world as a WZ map. Currently we only know about the feelings of the few end-users who post in the forums. That's like the sensor range of a CC. The rest of the map is covered by fog of war - we have no idea who's out there or what they are doing. Anon usage reporting is like building sensors across the map - as we build more sensors and upgrade their abilities, we see more of the map and learn more about the end-users.

Consider this - if you were going to make new textures for weapon turrets, where would you start? What one texture would benefit the most end-users? If you only had limited time to make changes to the game, where should you focus your efforts for best effect?
Last edited by aubergine on 16 Jan 2012, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by NoQ » 16 Jan 2012, 12:43

95%? - got data to back that up?
That's the definition of a newbie. Take out the best 5% and call others newbies :3

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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by Iluvalar » 16 Jan 2012, 17:29

hey ! stay in your 5% noob ! I'm in the 3% ! :3

I agree with NoQ about CB and Vtol tower.
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by aubergine » 16 Jan 2012, 18:47

So, I never use CB towers, even once researched (I don't play many MP games btw) so I tend to go through this sequence in terms of structures built:

* Sensor tower
* Hardened sensor tower
* Wide spectrum sensor tower
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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by Reg312 » 16 Jan 2012, 19:23

NoQ a bit snob, every times he say about "competiteve" games.
I believe game should work good both for 95% newbies and for 5% gaffers players

Iluvalar, how you think is possible to use genetic algorithm for balancing?

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Re: Current Balance poll

Post by NoQ » 16 Jan 2012, 19:37

The very notion of balance supposes that the player knows what he is doing and uses technologies under consideration in the best possible way. If some player can't micromanage his lancer hovers and doesn't know how to hit-and-run, it doesn't make lancer hovers less powerful. If some player doesn't know how to use CB towers, it doesn't make them underpowered. The notion of balance only deals with how much a perfect player can use some technology.

Somebody really needs to make a sticky to explain what a "balance" is. I'm surprised to see so many people misunderstand it.

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