Re: Flamers!
Posted: 18 Aug 2012, 03:30
It's not about exploring or not, it's about researching the weapon that your scout use in order to be efficient.
Which means it's ok for you to throw away the current situation (flamers are equally strong against all propulsions), anybody else likes that?i prefer all items
This may no longer be the case once modifiers are fixed, and i see no problem with some weapon being better on a certain propulsion. So let's focus on quality problems instead of whether flamers should be nerfed or not.* flamers on hovers are very strong
There is no such thing as wheels ... right?Convert flamers weap mod into anti-wheel.
Since there are not much different weapons in the flamer line (at least until lasers), i don't see much sense in using the thermal armor in the same way that we use regular armor, that is, for damage vs. ROF decisions. Instead, i think, it should regulate the anti-flamer vs. anti-kinetic properties of the body.Yes, the armor layer should be fixed.
flamers also strong on half-tracks (depend on enemy's weapon)NoQ wrote:and i see no problem with some weapon being better on a certain propulsion
i'd like make flamers weaken to particular propulsionsNoQ wrote:Which means it's ok for you to throw away the current situation (flamers are equally strong against all propulsions), anybody else likes that?
agreedIluvalar wrote:1) Add "poison time", "poison damage" and "poison animation/pie" to the weapon stats. It's missing right now and hardcoded only for flamers burning...
i dislike to make cyborgs stronger, flamers now serves as limiter of cyborgs, particularly large masses of cyborgs very vulnerable to flamers and i like itIluvalar wrote: 2) Convert flamers weap mod into anti-wheel. Instead of being so much the same as anti-personnal.
misunderstoodIluvalar wrote: 3) Yes, the armor layer should be fixed. (armor of heavy bodies being half the mean direct damage of all usable weapons). Both for thermal and kinetic.
agreedIluvalar wrote: 4) Wait and see after such change.
What problem? 47% are happy with flamers as they are. Aren't you just tinkering now?NoQ wrote:Ok, so i guess nobody minds the incendiary damage problem being fixed (on the code side). So i think the right question to ask now is what exactly we expect to see when it's fixed. A few random thoughts:
- We may turn flamers into a purely anti-personnel weapon, similar to what has been there before the incendiary damage bug was introduced. This allows four obvious factions (mg/cannons, mg/rockets, flame/cannons, flame/rockets) of pretty much the same value.
- As an update to the previous idea, we may want them to be some sort of all-rounder weapon in a sense opposite to that of cannons: bad against structures and specially walls, good against bunkers, more or less good against borgs (but not as good as machineguns) and effectively countered by tracks (but not as effectively as machineguns); this is a relationship similar to the relationship between rockets and cannons. This will turn flamer/cannon faction into a completely inflexible spam faction that will eventually die both against pure cyborgs and pure tracks, but will be still effective against mix of those.
- We may give a huge importance to the thermal armor layer, so that presence of flamers heavily forced body choice (bug vs. cobra, scorpion vs. python, mantis vs. tiger) rather than propulsion choice.
I agree. Perhaps we could add some sort of engine multiplier value for each of the propulsions? Like, for example, giving tracks a large multiplier and hover a small one, in addition to a weight multiplier?Reg312 wrote:1) hover tanks very fast even with heavy weapons and bodies = weight\engine layer broken!
hover tanks receive 50% speed bonus in most cases
as far i remember we have different modifers for each propulsion and terrain type (terraintable.txt)Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:Perhaps we could add some sort of engine multiplier value for each of the propulsions? Like, for example, giving tracks a large multiplier and hover a small one, in addition to a weight multiplier?
If you keep the 10 propulsion choices, you can make the flamers specialized vs wheel and still make them good vs legs. Just as AP are good vs wheel right now.Reg312 wrote:i dislike to make cyborgs stronger, flamers now serves as limiter of cyborgs, particularly large masses of cyborgs very vulnerable to flamers and i like itIluvalar wrote: 2) Convert flamers weap mod into anti-wheel. Instead of being so much the same as anti-personnal.
i see cyborgs as good support units and good way to surprise enemy, if we nerf flamers to cyborgs, then cyborgs will become primary army (i saw that in iluvalar's NRS-mod and i did not liked it)
I'm too much used to dev with an autobalance that run after me . Sorry if it's not clear, I meant : increase the heavy bodies armor but increase their price accordingly. So it would start to be weak vs weapons that exceed the mean damage because the armor wouldn't worth it.Reg312 wrote:misunderstoodIluvalar wrote: 3) Yes, the armor layer should be fixed. (armor of heavy bodies being half the mean direct damage of all usable weapons). Both for thermal and kinetic.
heavy bodies are OP now and better way to fix it is impoving medium and light bodies
that change also acutomatically will improve flamers, how about flamers as anti-light weapon?
Can you use incenTime, incenDamage and incenRadius for this purpose? (Yes, for some reason we also have a separate, hard-coded burn damage for tiles that are on fire. Not sure why.)Iluvalar wrote:1) Add "poison time", "poison damage" and "poison animation/pie" to the weapon stats. It's missing right now and hardcoded only for flamers burning...
hm? you saying like that parameters "incenTime, incenDamage and incenRadius" are unused.. or i misunderstoodPer wrote:Can you use incenTime, incenDamage and incenRadius for this purpose? (Yes, for some reason we also have a separate, hard-coded burn damage for tiles that are on fire. Not sure why.)Iluvalar wrote:1) Add "poison time", "poison damage" and "poison animation/pie" to the weapon stats. It's missing right now and hardcoded only for flamers burning...