Flamers!

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)

Flamers are...

underpowered !
14
24%
just right !
19
32%
overpowered !
26
44%
 
Total votes: 59

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NoQ
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Re: Flamers!

Post by NoQ » 25 Apr 2012, 20:18

Railguns are the same in this sense. And they are also very strong (but almost useless anyway)

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Re: Flamers!

Post by Reg312 » 25 Apr 2012, 20:20

NoQ wrote:Railguns are the same in this sense. And they are also very strong (but almost useless anyway)
rail guns get 10-20% to shot range, while flamers get 50-100% :)

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Re: Flamers!

Post by Cyp » 25 Apr 2012, 22:47

Iluvalar wrote:As far as i know, the flamer can "chain react" and each time win 50% more of it range (multiplicative) 4=>6=>9=>13=>20=>30=>45=>70. Sometime we see a flaming shot going trough the entire map when it jump enough. It just work like that...
I think I used to see that in ancient versions, sometimes, but not for ages, only in ancent versions... Think flamer (and any other projectile) range is constant, independent of penetrating...

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Re: Flamers!

Post by Reg312 » 25 Apr 2012, 22:54

Cyp wrote: Think flamer (and any other projectile) range is constant, independent of penetrating...
mm, did you saw screenshot in post on previous page?
we can see flamer's projectile in range of 6 tiles while maximum range only 4 tiles

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NoQ
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Re: Flamers!

Post by NoQ » 25 Apr 2012, 23:01

The screenshot in post on previous page doesn't show chain reaction, but only its single step.

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Re: Flamers!

Post by Reg312 » 25 Apr 2012, 23:09

NoQ wrote:The screenshot in post on previous page doesn't show chain reaction, but only its single step.
i never saw chain reaciton (or never played ancient versions)

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Iluvalar
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Iluvalar » 26 Apr 2012, 02:47

Cyp wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:As far as i know, the flamer can "chain react" and each time win 50% more of it range (multiplicative) 4=>6=>9=>13=>20=>30=>45=>70. Sometime we see a flaming shot going trough the entire map when it jump enough. It just work like that...
I think I used to see that in ancient versions, sometimes, but not for ages, only in ancent versions... Think flamer (and any other projectile) range is constant, independent of penetrating...
mea culpa, I just compared projectile.c to projectile.cpp. It seem that the flamer projectile will die at 150% of the flamer range. Hitting anything in the path a causing a splash each time, but it will not extend further.
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Amiral JCDG
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Amiral JCDG » 03 Jun 2012, 13:13

Flamers are too powerful in T1.
It doesn't cost anything to be optimistic...
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Reg312 » 17 Aug 2012, 15:15

Hi all. i have to up this thread

Players again complain to OP flamers.
Flamer was nerfed in latest balance patch BUT Anti-flamer weapons was also nerfed
- MRA (Mini-rocket artillery)
- Heavy Machinegun
- Assault Gun

I suggest nerf flamers a bit more.
1) Reduce damage of flamer (earliest)
10-15%
2) Make research path more complex for flamers
flamer research should have more pre-requisites/more research point
3) Increase thremal armor (and price) of yellow bodies
10%

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Andrie
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Andrie » 17 Aug 2012, 15:25

Flamers are overpowered in T1 why? Because the best Flamer the Plasmite Flamer is easy to get you just research this:

Plasmite Flamer
Heavy Flamer - Inferno
Superhot Flamer Gel
High Temperature Flamer Gel Mk3
High Temperature Flamer Gel Mk2
High Temperature Flamer Gel
Flamer
Engineering
Flamer (See above)
Neural Synapse Research Brain
Dedicated Synaptic Link Data Analysis Mk3
Dedicated Synaptic Link Data Analysis Mk2
Dedicated Synaptic Link Data Analysis
Synaptic Link Data Analysis Mk3
Synaptic Link Data Analysis Mk2
Synaptic Link Data Analysis
Research Module
Command Relay Post
Sensor Tower
Sensor Turret
Last edited by Andrie on 27 Aug 2012, 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Iluvalar » 17 Aug 2012, 16:21

At this point, I'd suggest to reduce the research cost for tracks instead.

Edit : And I'd like to point that out again, because of the absence of unit preview, the more the others bugs and balance will be fixed, the more pure flamers strategy will come out with a do or die approach. And they WILL be unstoppable more and more often. Because you cannot know there is a flamer approaching before it is on your units. So if your opening sequence have a weakness to flamer rush, you will most likely lose. And if not, you will probably win. And the gap between the 2 where there is a decision process commonly called "game" will shrink considerably.

In other words, it's normal that in some games, you just die to a flamer players without any sort of options (unless you cheat).
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Reg312 » 17 Aug 2012, 19:22

@Andrie: compare research path of inferno with other weapons
flamer line is independent on another lines

@Iluvalar: im saying about situation when you cannot resist flamers even if you know about them
seems all other weapon lines are weak to flamers, you need two weapons at same time to deal with flamers

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Re: Flamers!

Post by Giani » 17 Aug 2012, 23:53

Reg312 wrote: ...
I suggest nerf flamers a bit more.
...
2) Make research path more complex for flamers
flamer research should have more pre-requisites/more research point
IMO, this is the best way to make flamers more weak.(but maybe it will need some other change too)
3) Increase thremal armor (and price) of yellow bodies
10%
I usually use yellow bodies because they are fast(and cheap) and not only if there are enemy flamers.
Btw, what about making another thread with a poll for voting the best way to make flamers not OP?
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Iluvalar » 18 Aug 2012, 02:53

Reg312 wrote: @Iluvalar: im saying about situation when you cannot resist flamers even if you know about them
seems all other weapon lines are weak to flamers, you need two weapons at same time to deal with flamers
I'm saying there will be games were you dont "know about them" fast enough. It will be "oops too late" and that THIS is the balanced state.
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Re: Flamers!

Post by Giani » 18 Aug 2012, 02:58

Iluvalar wrote: I'm saying there will be games were you dont "know about them" fast enough. It will be "oops too late" and that THIS is the balanced state.
You can know them, but if you are a too lazy to explore, it is a problem. At least play the beta version... And a weapon doesn't get OP for that.
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501

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