Research timeout

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crab_
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Research timeout

Post by crab_ » 26 Mar 2019, 21:27

Hello warzone fans!

Here is another idea. Not sure, how new. Hope it will be interesting.

Problem: new players can't remember whole research tree and this is problem for involving new players
Result: players must train researching over and over to get full automatism
My opinion: This is not fair play, when player lose only because click slow on research icons.

Solution: Add research timeout before start research
When research become available first time in research panel it gets timeout for 10 seconds. There is no mater how fast you in clicking research during that timeout.
If you click it in first second, it will wait 9 secs. If you click in 10th second, it will start immediately.
Of course it can involve minor balance issues, because game pace will be shifted.

This feature is not that hard to implement.
Warzone2100 Guide - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/

Forgon
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Re: Research timeout

Post by Forgon » 26 Mar 2019, 21:53

I do not think that is an important issue, because
  • among other things, templates and keyboard shortcuts can give a far more
    significant advantage. A new player may effectively lose out on the first minute
    of action, which is so important, and thus be seriously disadvantaged.
  • rather than not clicking quickly enough, through sheer ignorance a new
    player may not figure out what he needs to research at all.
    How should he know that the Super-Heavy Gunner requires the Medium Cannon?
    Or that Ripple Rockets depend on the CB Tower?
I suggest playing more low-oil games, which do not degenerate into clicking
competitions.

crab_
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Re: Research timeout

Post by crab_ » 26 Mar 2019, 22:52

I'm trying to get precised on one problem.
Anyway, I think my proposition is not 100% good because It can change very early game.
But, I still think it can be interesting feature.
Forgon wrote:
26 Mar 2019, 21:53
How should he know that the Super-Heavy Gunner requires the Medium Cannon?
This is another known problem.
I can list many research-related problems:
1) Research module problem. We need some warning which will tell player what he forgot to build research or power module.
2) Not-intuitive research paths.
3) Too less information about research paths and effects available in game
4)....
Forgon wrote:
26 Mar 2019, 21:53
I suggest playing more low-oil games, which do not degenerate into clicking
competitions.
That is not true. Fast clicking on research is valued skill at any game conditions.
Warzone2100 Guide - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/

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xNEXTx
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Re: Research timeout

Post by xNEXTx » 27 Mar 2019, 00:25

People, what is there to even discuss? O_o
It's a real - time strategy-it's a war. Here is an important reaction, errors of the players and of course experience.
A new player must learn, learn and learn again :lecture: . He must suffer to look for mistakes and draw conclusions.
In any game a beginner is a "piece of meat" that needs to evolve.
I myself was a beginner, I lost - I developed and it is correct.
No need to level everyone. Everyone has to declare himself. If anyone knows how to play well, let him play as best he can.
If you do, you'll ruin the game.
This is only my opinion, but I could not remain silent.
P.S. Warzone2100 - It's not chess... :!:

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Iluvalar
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Re: Research timeout

Post by Iluvalar » 13 May 2019, 01:43

I agree with this suggestion. Little tweak on it : Each research automatically conduct 20% of their research time no matter if clicked or not or how many research lab you got as soon as they are available.

This way the pace of the game stay the same, but clicking any time during that first 20% wouldn't give any advantage.

I want to point out that interest rate, such as the one i had in NRS, solve this problem entirely.
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.

MIH-XTC
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Re: Research timeout

Post by MIH-XTC » 14 Jul 2019, 14:06

I understand where crab is coming from. If players do not constantly research in multiplayer then they will lose and too much emphasis is placed on seamless research transitions from one item to the next.

The real problem with research is that the costs are not balanced relative to units, thus making non-stop research way too powerful.

For example, an armor upgrade that costs 100 power can upgrade ~120 tanks or that 100 power can be spent building ½ of 1 unit. Of course the armor upgrade is a better bargain by orders of magnitude. This means that players aren’t even questioning whether research is “worth it” or not, it’s really obvious whoever researches the most wins.

For example, if a research upgrade costs 800 power, players might question whether it's worth it. In the long run it will but in the short term its a loss of 800 power. Now if that research upgrade only costs 150 then it's an obvious advantage both short and long term so it's not even a question, just go ahead and research it.


The solution is to increase the price of research items and also rescale the building times and costs of research centers and modules so that it takes “awhile” to accumulate 5 research centers. Otherwise, players can currently build all 5 research centers and have them maxed out in 1 minute.

If research centers only cost 100 power and take 20 seconds to build, then just go ahead and make 5 of those unless it's a really low oil game. Now if research centers cost 350 and the modules take longer to build, then players will not build all 5 right away and it's more of a gradual increase throughout the game.


By
- Increasing research costs
- Increasing build times for research centers and modules
- Making more research items relevant (half tech tree is just skipped through)
- Adding more items to the research tree

This will fix the over-emphasis on constantly research and shift focus towards other aspects of the game.

ThinkSome
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Re: Research timeout

Post by ThinkSome » 14 Jul 2019, 21:21

MH-XTC you play too much 40 oil NTW. Play some low oil games and see what happens when you spend it all on research.

MIH-XTC
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Re: Research timeout

Post by MIH-XTC » 14 Jul 2019, 23:47

ThinkSome wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 21:21
MH-XTC you play too much 40 oil NTW. Play some low oil games and see what happens when you spend it all on research.
the research upgrade
the armor upgrade
whatever weapon you're using for that map

You still need continuous research even in low oil games but for weapons only.

Armor and weapon upgrades are the best value bargain to spend your power at any time in the game.

Well... there's only 2 other things you can spend it on, structures and droids. Since structures are the exact same thing as a droid with zero propulsion and extra hitpoints they're almost all worthless (solution to this is give them independent turret). So then it's just make a tank or research a weapon upgrade. Weapon upgrade is better value every time.

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