Changing how armour upgrades work

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Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Per » 29 Nov 2015, 15:56

I just noticed that droid armour upgrades work differently than all other upgrades, and also differently than armour for structures and features. That is, for droids only, armour is set on droid construction, and never changed (unless droid is recycled). This seems a bit odd. Unless I hear objections, I'll make armour for all objects work the same way, for consistency.

Patch: https://github.com/perim/warzone2100/commit/a1cb2afb6d31a4c54694ab828ab2cff0168dc981
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Terminator » 29 Nov 2015, 18:55

I believe its about game feature that units becoming obsolete (outdated). That's why armor upgrades applies only after recycle.

What about weapon Upgrades ? are they applies instant on every unit on map or only after recycle too ?
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby crab_ » 29 Nov 2015, 19:25

Is this bug applicable to current stable version 3.1.2?
I have never noticed this bug. but its less noticeable because armor and HP upgrade simultaneously.
That fix for 3.1.3 or just for master version?

If I understood correctly, HP upgrades apply to tanks on battle fields, but kinetic/thermal armour upgrades apply only to new outcoming from factory.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Berg » 29 Nov 2015, 21:33

Part of the normal game play is to upgrade your units, I think changing this in the system to auto upgrade will change how people play warzone.
If its not a Bug then dont fix it.
It will remove another thing the player has to think about.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Jorzi » 29 Nov 2015, 22:47

I was not aware that this was a feature nor have I read it in any guide. If this is only true for armor, but not hp, speed or weapons, I think this is very inconsistent. I'd say either make this a feature for all droid upgrades or dump it.
Of course, this may have some impact on the game balance, especially if it becomes a feature for droid upgrades.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Terminator » 29 Nov 2015, 23:20

Jorzi wrote:I'd say either make this a feature for all droid upgrades or dump it.


signing up for this.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Per » 29 Nov 2015, 23:21

Terminator wrote:What about weapon Upgrades ? are they applies instant on every unit on map or only after recycle too ?

They are instant.

Berg wrote:Part of the normal game play is to upgrade your units ... It will remove another thing the player has to think about.

You have no way of telling which units have old armour stats, and which have new armour stats. So it is a bit hard to even think about.

Jorzi wrote:I'd say either make this a feature for all droid upgrades or dump it.

I've been thinking about this. It seems like a very big change (we need to store a lot of extra information for each game object), and with no way to tell which droids are upgraded (and structures too, if we want this to be entirely consistent), and which are not, I'm not sure if it is a good idea.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby NoQ » 01 Dec 2015, 21:21

I've heard of no RTS games that actually tell you to recycle droids to apply upgrades. I recall that in, say, Master of Orion, they never applied upgrades instantly, you used to re-design the ship for adding a better engine or targeting computer or whatever (however, in MOO2, engine upgrades used to apply instantly, and armor upgrades used to apply for all newly produced units without re-design, but everything else still required not only re-making units, but also re-designing the droid templates, because most likely you'd never have free space in the droid for the new stuff).
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Per » 02 Dec 2015, 00:47

Moo2 was really a confusing mixed bag of results from upgrades. But still one of the best games ever made, IMHO. However, you could easily tell if a unit were in need of upgrades. You would just mouse-over it in the upgrade screen (or combat screen, or fleet view) to see exactly what components it had. In Warzone, there is just no way to tell if a unit has old or new armour.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Berg » 02 Dec 2015, 01:32

Why ask for
Per wrote:This seems a bit odd. Unless I hear objections

Its not like you will listen.
Sorry you make it sound like this particular part of warzone is broken I prefer you to fix path-finding and other things that are broken rather then mess with something that does not need fixing.
I understood nothing was to be changed in this versions only bug fixes..
You might get the idea that I'm anti new or anti improve but this is not the fact you will add you patch no matter what...
I do understand things need fixing but I would like the code that’s already been modified and broken to be fixed before moving on to the next bug insertion patch sorry just a bit frustrating that things are forgotten from all the bug reports.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Per » 02 Dec 2015, 10:13

crab_ wrote:That fix for 3.1.3 or just for master version?

I'm thinking just changing master. From what I can tell, it has been this way forever, so there is no urgent need to change it.

crab_ wrote:If I understood correctly, HP upgrades apply to tanks on battle fields, but kinetic/thermal armour upgrades apply only to new outcoming from factory.

Correct.

Berg wrote:Its not like you will listen.

I would listen if you posted something of substance. Every time I post some suggestion, you just post personal attacks and "please do not change anything" nonsense without addressing the real subject. It is just annoying.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby stiv » 02 Dec 2015, 22:57

Seems like a good change. Makes everything consistent. And the code is prettier!

With a turn-based game, you can spend more time fussing over your units. For WZ, doing upgrades automagically simplifies the game mechanics, the same way we don't bother with supply lines or ammo reloads.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby Terminator » 04 Dec 2015, 01:00

I would say - apply this patch to up coming 3.1.3.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby vexed » 04 Dec 2015, 05:03

Per wrote:I just noticed that droid armour upgrades work differently than all other upgrades, and also differently than armour for structures and features. That is, for droids only, armour is set on droid construction, and never changed (unless droid is recycled). This seems a bit odd. Unless I hear objections, I'll make armour for all objects work the same way, for consistency.

Patch: https://github.com/perim/warzone2100/commit/a1cb2afb6d31a4c54694ab828ab2cff0168dc981


I did see this in the past, but, I always thought it was done to balance it more...so, on that alone, if we go messing with that, I am thinking things would need to be readjusted for balance after that.
Therefore, it shouldn't be in 3.1.
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Re: Changing how armour upgrades work

Postby crab_ » 05 Dec 2015, 20:12

Terminator wrote:I would say - apply this patch to up coming 3.1.3.

Agreed.

There is only way to adjust balance - testing. I mean testing when you play over and over many times, not just few test games with god mode.
Dozens of random players doing testing every day playing multiplayer warzone. Only after months of that kind of testing we can say what wrong in balance.

You devs is just postponing testing. Warzone specifics - game can be good tested only in relise version. Players won't play raw pre-resile version.
Each postponed balance change is pain in ass in future.

If I understand correctly. Balance changes are accumulated in master version.
So master relise will be far away from current balance adjustment. It will be fully chaotic.
So when you stacking balance changes in master you increase time needed to test and rebalance master version from the first chaotic relise.

In sum - i suggest to apply armour upgrades fix in 3.1.3 and see what happen.

As usual, sorry for bad english. I hope my thoughts are quite understandable.
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