Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)
Post Reply
anonim17465
Trained
Trained
Posts: 80
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 08:06

Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by anonim17465 »

Currently heavy bodies are as fast as small bodies.
So, I can't use some sort of hit-and-run tacktic with small bodies because enemy can catch them with a heavy bodies hovers.
(make heavy bodies x3 and medium bodies x2 as heavy)
(If turning speed depends on weight, then that's all. If not - then make turning speed smaller accordingly)

Hovers currently are 2x as fast, than a wheels. IRL difference is much smaller. Hover isn't a plane.
(Make hover speed 1.5...1.7 tiles\s. keep +20%...+30% increase in a line tracks-HT-wheels-hover)

Weight of bodies(actually, multiplicator) does increase while going hover-wheels-HT-tracks. That's somewhat reasonable.
But IRL all heavy weapons are installed only on tracks\half tracks. You can put howitser on a wheels, but it will be slower, than on a tracks. And heavy AA cannon, if it will be installed on a hover, will barely move.
(Make weapon weight smaller accordingly body weight increase when mounted on slow propulsion)

Currently body cost averagly less than half of whole unit. and difference between prices of heavy and light body is about x2.
So, you can get x3 hp, x2 armor for just 25% of price of unit. It make no sense in small bodies.
(Make medim bodies prices x1.5, heavy body prices x2)

P.S. all of this will make tanks a bit weaker, so cyborgs will get bonus. To avoid this effect, cyborgs should get nerfed a bit.
(make cyborgs have 20% less HP. optionally. Without it cyborgs still can be effectively destroyed with flamers, MG, etc)

What we will get:
Hovers are still fastest ground propulsion... Just not so fast, and wheels still have a point.
All heavy weapons has to be installed on a heavy propulsion, otherwise their weight will affect on a unit too badly.
Light bodies will be faster than a heavy bodies.
Last edited by anonim17465 on 22 Dec 2013, 17:16, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
NoQ
Special
Special
Posts: 6226
Joined: 24 Dec 2009, 11:35
Location: /var/zone

Re: Heavy bodies, hovers and weight

Post by NoQ »

Please. Not another speed thread.
anonim17465
Trained
Trained
Posts: 80
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 08:06

Re: Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by anonim17465 »

It's another thing :P Previously weight of weapons been discussed. And here is effect of bodies and propulsion. Both of them can be implemented.
crab_
Trained
Trained
Posts: 349
Joined: 29 Jul 2013, 18:09

Re: Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by crab_ »

@anonim17465
I see this topic mostly about balance of bodies than about speed.

I agree when you researched heavy bodies you do not need any other bodies (except usage of medium bodies for VTOLs)
anonim17465 wrote:(make heavy bodies x3 and medium bodies x2 as heavy)
You meant speed x3 and x2?
Speed dependent on weaight of unit and also speed dependent on body engine power.
We can tune speed for each body.

I agree to make light bodies faster than med.bodies.
anonim17465 wrote:(Make hover speed 1.5...1.7 tiles\s. keep +20%...+30% increase in a line tracks-HT-wheels-hover)
If you meant reduce speed of hovers from +100% to +20%-30% then i agree
anonim17465 wrote:(Make weapon weight smaller accordingly body weight increase when mounted on slow propulsion)
Not sure what you meant.
anonim17465 wrote:(Make medim bodies prices x1.5, heavy body prices x2)
I agree to make heavy and medium bodies more expensive.
anonim17465 wrote:(make cyborgs have 20% less HP. optionally. Without it cyborgs still can be effectively destroyed with flamers, MG, etc)
Cyborgs are not very strong now. But yes if we nerf tanks then we have to nerf cyborgs
anonim17465 wrote:Light bodies will be faster than a heavy bodies.
Agreed with overall idea, but not sure how it can be implemented..
Warzone2100 Guide - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/
anonim17465
Trained
Trained
Posts: 80
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 08:06

Re: Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by anonim17465 »

You meant speed x3 and x2?
Speed dependent on weaight of unit and also speed dependent on body engine power.
We can tune speed for each body.

I agree to make light bodies faster than med.bodies.
I do not mean to change speed directly. There are formula of speed, that we still can use, if we will alter weight of bodies.
I mean, that if current weight of viper, cobra and python now are: 600. 2000. 2700
To change them to: 600, 4000, 8100.
That will make them to have just enough power to move, so even without any weapon their speed will be below maximum.
Make weapon weight smaller accordingly body weight increase when mounted on slow propulsion
By this I men, that if heavy cannon has weight 10 000, and wheels body weight multiplicator is x2, then weapon weight derease should be x2 too. With tracks, that has body weight increase x6.5, weapon weight can be decreased in x6.5 too.

weight of cobra body - 2000(or 4000 as I offered a bit before), weight of heavy cannon is 10 000.
Then on wheels total weight will be 2000*2 + 10 000 / 2 = 9 000. (13 000 with cobra weight 4000 instead of 2000)
And on tracks weight will be 2000 * 6.5 + 10 000 / 6.5 = 14 538. (25 738 with cobra weight 4000 instead of 2000)

with cobra and light cannon parameters will be:
on wheels: 2000*2+1000/2=4 500 (8 500 with cobra weight 4000 instead of 2000)
on tracks 2000*6.5+1000/6.5=13 154 (26 154 with cobra weight 4000 instead of 2000)

With this it will be possible to install big weapons on small bodies. But only on tracks.

Why? To avoid situation when very heavy weapons installed on hovers or wheels.
They should be installed on tracks mainly, tracks are better for carrying heavy things without affection on speed, while wheels and hovers are made for lightweight weapons, and they are not good for heavy weapons.
Light bodies will be faster than a heavy bodies.
This can be done by making heavy bodies heavier. Then because of limited power they will not go at maximum speed.
anonim17465
Trained
Trained
Posts: 80
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 08:06

Re: Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by anonim17465 »

Weight and power of bodies accordingly, currently:
viper weight: 600 power: 5000 (ratio of weight to power: 12%)
cobra 2000 15000 (13%)
python 2700 20000 (13.5%)

bug 450 5000 (9%)
scorpion 1500 15000 (10%)
mantis 2100 20000 (10.5%)

leopard 750 4000 (18.75%)
panter 2500 15000 (16.67%)
tiger 3300 18000 (18.33%)

retalation 450 5000 (9%)
retribution 1500 15000 (10%)
vengeance 2500 23000 (10.87%)

wywern 5000 25000 (20%)
dragon 6000 30000 (20%)

Change them to:

viper weight: 600 power: 5000 (ratio of weight to power: 12%)
cobra 4000 15000 (26%)
python 8100 20000 (40.5%)

bug 450 5000 (9%)
scorpion 3000 15000 (20%)
mantis 6300 20000 (31.5%)

leopard 750 4000 (18.75%)
panter 5000 15000 (33.33%)
tiger 9900 18000 (55%)

retalation 450 5000 (9%)
retribution 2000 15000 (20%)
vengeance 7500 23000 (32.61%)

wywern 15000 25000 (60%)
dragon 18000 30000 (60%)

As you can see, previously nearly all bodies had ratio of 10-20%.
I'm offering to change it ~10% for light bodies and ~40% for heavy bodies. (and 60% for super heavy bodies)
anonim17465
Trained
Trained
Posts: 80
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 08:06

Re: Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by anonim17465 »

Including 150% upgrade of engine at maximum...
Currently average ratio was changd from 10%...20% to 7%...15%.
With my offer ratio will be changed from 10...40% to 7%...27%.
That will make engine upgrades much more important too.
anonim17465
Trained
Trained
Posts: 80
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 08:06

Re: Heavy bodies, prices, hovers and weight

Post by anonim17465 »

another thing, that it will affect: heavy and medium VTOLs. they will be significantly slower at recharging, than light bodies.
That will make light bodies much better at attacking, keeping them very easy to destroy with any normal AA weapons.
With heavy or medium AA bodies they will fly slower, what will make it easier to destroy them.
Post Reply