Balance 3.1. Is possibly to fix before 3.2?

[Alpha93]

Disrespectful? Really? Ok, whatever you say. It COULD be that I'm just a BIT (read as "a lot") pissed off.
I am not a MP player? Yeah, sure. Perhaps, first get your facts straight. The only issue in low oil is rockets being a lot better than cannons in the early game.

Inferno hover tracks: gets shredded to pieces by MGs and all rounders. Tested this personally against a smaller number of HC Python hovers recently. Result: Infernos lost. BADLY. And that was with infernos upgraded to the point that I was researching and producing half upgraded (read as plasmite gel mk2) plasmite flamers by then, which, according to what you say, should be OP. And they lost even with the penetrating effect. So I can't see how they are OP. Scorpion isn't exactly mid tier either, and it's your job to adapt to the enemy weapon choice.

GS: OP in high oil because LOLINFINITE amounts of power allowing you to call in the whole Soviet Russia worth of field artillery.

VTOLs being OP... They can't be OP unless they're on. And how many times are they actually turned on?

Transports: removing weapons... Nobody ever plays with VTOLs, so what's the point?

Let me get some facts straight: in low oil either you build units or you research till you get the power upgrades (and one would want to get the power module asap as it is a pre-requisite for the factory module) while grabbing as much oil as possible.
This is when playing FFA. In a team, this issue is lessened (some players can res while others defend/attack) but nonetheless it still exists. You can lose by being simply out teched, even with superior numbers unless they're VASTLY superior (oh my, WW2 didn't teach us enough!). Incendiary mortar only does damage by fire, because it fires an artillery round which incendiary properties, pretty much like the Incendiary bombs.

Now let me ask one thing. HOW many low oil 5v5, 3v3v3, 3v4 and so on maps do we have compared to NTW? How many of those are actually played? Sorry mate, but this whole patch, since low oil games aren't almost played on lobby, looks like it's balanced around NTW and since you're a MP player yourself (since you refuse to call me one) you DO know that low oil is rarely hosted and, when it is, it rarely gets filled (unless it's made by players in IRC).
The real issue was cannons vs rockets, and perhaps the late MGs.

[NoQ]

Alpha93: i have everything under control.
I do make sure this patch isn't balanced around NTW, as i promised to never do anything in favor of NTW ever again.
I can confirm most of these issues based on classic-style matches.

It's not just about underpowered cannons. I actually see how pure tank killer tiger tracks army can do absolutely nothing against pure hmg/ag python halftracks. I actually see unstoppable flamers in all phases of the game. I actually see classic low-oil, and even low oil 1x1, games won via empty transporter spam, or incendiary mortar cobra hover spam. That's all quite real. You will not see any of that in your NullBot matches though.

[Alpha93]

In fact, I just came out of a match where my TAG/HPV/HC Python Hovers supported by scourge/rail/AG borgs raped the crap out of heavier and more armored hovers while being shelled by GS/HS/RR emplacements. And even then, the HPVs were getting the job done, just not fast enough.
Regarding nullbot, I'd like to have a chat about it, but this isn't the place nor the time.
TK vs TAG, been there (mostly on the receiving end) and seen that aswell. It's the main complaint I have against TAG.
Again, regarding transporters, how many times do you actually find someone who has literally balls of steel to enable them?

[crab_]

balance patch v.7 for testing purposes

balance_for3.1_ver7.wz

(48.1 KiB) Downloaded 274 times

changes by vexed did not applied yet, i uploaded .wz version to make player able to dload it

[NoQ]

Again, regarding transporters, how many times do you actually find someone who has literally balls of steel to enable them?

I think you're missing the point. Those who don't have balls of steel never care about game balance. There may be many of them, but their opinion is worth nothing. We're not going to ever care about them, balance is not for them. They break their warranty by enforcing unsupported game rules.

HC Python Hovers supported by scourge

Well, that's something much more unlikely than transporters. Nobody will ever research cannons and rockets at once, no matter how many balls of steel he has, because it's just plain waste of everything.

[Alpha93]

That's what you get when your rockets are fully upgraded and another player is upgrading cannons (even though in my case the rockets were fully upgraded a bit before cannons were, all of this while upgrading my TAG's ammunition to tungsten tipped, rocket accuracy since my ally was using hardpoints w/ lancers/TKs and the needle gun after the guy got the HVAPFSDS rounds done).
Also started as a T3 game, so yeah, go figure. I basically used everything I had, since the map forced me to get Bunker Busters anyway.
15* res facilities

[crab_]

Tested cannon vs machinegun balance. It looks pretty nice
10 light cannons half-tracks stronger than 15-20 TMG
Cannons are stronger but you still need some mg/wheels to resists rush.

Tested on StartUp map.

[vexed]

tl;dr
Stop the flame wars if you don't mind, it gets in the way of what is trying to be done.
Alpha93 has a good point, you don't run into a buzz-saw blindly, you stay out of its range. It is about about tactics.

Some random comments from what I read before I got vexed.
ALL_ROUNDER is *only* a effect. Nothing more. I just happen to like it with this bomb.
Thermal armor doesn't need a bump, the hit points are lowered for flamers.

That said, here is the final* patch.

Code: Select all

    Note, this is *only* for MP, not campaign!
    * Cyborg transporter weapon removed. [assignweapons.txt]
    * Machine gun upgrades: [functions.txt]
    -First ROF Upgrade 17->20.
    -Second ROF Upgrade 34->38.
    -Third ROF Upgrade 50->46.
    * Hovercraft [propulsion.txt]
    -Price 100->150.
    -Hit Points 150->100.
    * Lasers [prreseach.txt]
    -Pre-requisites: NSRB Mk2->NSRB Mk1  (move up on tech tree, available earlier)
    * Cannons [research.txt]
    -Research Points 2400->1800.
    * Lasers [resultcomponent.txt]
    -Don't auto-upgrade to Pulse Laser
    * Strucutre Modifiers (ANTI PERSONNEL) [structuremodifier.txt]
    -vs. Medium structures: 80->65.
    -vs. Hard structures: 50->40.
    -vs. Bunkers: 75->50
    * Remove weapon from Cyborg transporter [templates.txt]
    * Weapon Modifiers (ANTI PERSONNEL) [weaponmodifier.txt]
    -vs. Halftracks: 60->50.
    -vs. Tracks: 50->40.
    *[Weapons.txt]
    *PlasmiteFlamer
    -Price 130->160.
    -Weight 750->5000.
    -Incendiary Damage 50->42.
    *Mortar-Incenediary
    -Incendiary Radius 192->128
    -Splash Damage 70 -> 50
    -Damage 90 -> 80
    *Twin Assault Gun (MG5TWINROTARY)
    -Hit Points 300->125.
    *Assault Gun (MG4ROTARYMk1)
    -Hit Points 250->125.
    *VTOL Assault Gun (MG4ROTARY-VTOL)
    -Hit Points 250->185.
    *Pillbox (MG4ROTARY-Pillbox)
    -Hit Points 250->175.
    *Heavy Machinegun (MG3Mk1)
    -Hit Points 150->75.
    *VTOL Heavy Machinegun (MG3-VTOL)
    -Hit Points 150->95.
    *Heavy Machinegun Bunker (MG3-Pillbox)
    -Hit Points 150->95.
    *Twin Machinegun (MG2Mk1)
    -Hit Points 125->75.
    *VTOL Twin Machinegun (MG2-VTOL)
    -Hit Points 125->95.
    *Twin Machinegun Bunker (MG2-Pillbox)
    -Hit Points 125->95.
    *Flashlight (Laser3BEAMMk1)
    -Damage 80 -> 100.
    *Ground Shaker (Howitzer150Mk1)
    -Long range 9984->8192.
    *Howitzer (Howitzer105Mk1)
    -Long range 4992->5120.
    -Fire Pause 150->110 (faster).
    *Incendiary Howitzer (Howitzer-Incenediary)
    -Incendiary Damage 32->24.
    -Radius 256->192.
    *Inferno (Flame2)
    -Weight 500->5000.
    -Incendiary Damage 32->28.
    -Hit Points 75->45.
    *Flamer (Flame1Mk1)
    -Hit points 40->10.
    -Price 40->60.
    -Incendiary Damage 28->20.
    *Flamer (CyborgFlamer01)
    -Hit points 40->10.
    -Incendiary Damage 22->16.
    -Price 50->65.
    *Cybrog Thermite Weapon (Cyb-Wpn-Thermite)
    -Price 80->100.
    -Incendiary Damage 32->26.
    *Cyb-Wpn-Laser (Cyb-Wpn-Laser)
    -Damage 70->90.
    *Assault Cannon (Cannon5VulcanMk1)
    -Damage 35->40.
    -Splash Damage 25->35.
    *Hyper Velocity Cannon (Cannon4AUTOMk1)
    -Damage 50->43.
    *Light Cannon (Cannon1Mk1)
    -Hit Points 200->250.
    *VTOL Cannon (Cannon1-VTOL)
    -HitPoints 200->250.
    *VTOL Plasmite Bomb Bay (Bomb5-VTOL-Plasmite)
    -Build Points 1000->2000.
    -Incendiary Damage 140->115.
    -Splash Damage 1000 -> 875.
    *VTOL Thermite Bomb Bay (Bomb4-VTOL-HvyINC)
    -Build Points 1000->1500.
    -Incendiary Damage 120->95.
    -Damage 400 -> 370

And note, I did the commit this way for a reason, it is so more people understand what is being changed, so they can play with stats, since we don't have a stats editor anymore. (You can still open up the *.txt file in a spread sheet though, and edit stuff that way, BUT that is impossible with master. )

*Should be final...

[NoQ]

you don't run into a buzz-saw blindly, you stay out of its range. It is about about tactics.

Well, flamers *are* about tactics. Even slow flamers (eg. halftracks) will work if you manage to surround the enemy; mg/flamer mixes work quite well when you let enemy engage in combat with machineguns and SUDDENLY throw in newly invented inferno halftracks from his back, better at his autoretreat path. Flamer matches are mostly about being able to do something like that.

*Hyper Velocity Cannon (Cannon4AUTOMk1)
-Damage 50->43.

Typo, should say "fire pause".

[crab_]

ALL_ROUNDER is *only* a effect. Nothing more. I just happen to like it with this bomb.

ALL_ROUNDER is damage modifier.

Thermal armor doesn't need a bump, the hit points are lowered for flamers.

Hit points lowered ~13%.


I see my comments and explanations ignored or misunderstood. I’m trough of it.

[vexed]

I think you missed the tl;dr remark, I don't have tons of time to read everything, so I skipped most everything after it turned into a bait war.

Code: Select all

Find all "ROUNDER", Subfolders, Find Results 1, "Entire Solution", "*.c;*.cpp;*.cxx;*.cc;*.tli;*.tlh;*.h;*.hpp;*.hxx;*.hh;*.inl;*.rc;*.resx;*.idl;*.asm;*.inc"
  warzone2100\src\stats.cpp(2933):	{"ALL ROUNDER",         WE_ANTI_AIRCRAFT        },  // Alternative name for WE_ANTI_AIRCRAFT.
  \warzone2100\src\stats.cpp(2959):	else if (strcmp(weaponEffect, "ANTI AIRCRAFT") == 0 || strcmp(weaponEffect, "ALL ROUNDER") == 0)
...
	else if (strcmp(weaponEffect, "ANTI AIRCRAFT") == 0 || strcmp(weaponEffect, "ALL ROUNDER") == 0)
	{
		*effect = WE_ANTI_AIRCRAFT;
	}
...

and again, about burn damage...

300 - 251 = 49 HP (26-16) = 10 secs Total DPS of 5. Armor = 50

They start out with 300 hit points, *after* the initial damage of 100 HP. They are on fire, so an additional 49 hit points of damage was done in a total of 10 secs.
They end up with 251 hit points.
That is the Y damage I have been talking about. It is not Y+15. They get approximately 5 DPS for 10 secs. (total 49 hit points lost)
To cap it off:
They had 400HP to start. The first hit took 100HP damage (X). On fire, they suffered Y more damage for Z secs. That leaves 251 hitpoints.

[NoQ]

Code: Select all

Find all "ROUNDER", Subfolders, Find Results 1, "Entire Solution", "*.c;*.cpp;*.cxx;*.cc;*.tli;*.tlh;*.h;*.hpp;*.hxx;*.hh;*.inl;*.rc;*.resx;*.idl;*.asm;*.inc"
  warzone2100\src\stats.cpp(2933):	{"ALL ROUNDER",         WE_ANTI_AIRCRAFT        },  // Alternative name for WE_ANTI_AIRCRAFT.
  \warzone2100\src\stats.cpp(2959):	else if (strcmp(weaponEffect, "ANTI AIRCRAFT") == 0 || strcmp(weaponEffect, "ALL ROUNDER") == 0)
...
	else if (strcmp(weaponEffect, "ANTI AIRCRAFT") == 0 || strcmp(weaponEffect, "ALL ROUNDER") == 0)
	{
		*effect = WE_ANTI_AIRCRAFT;
	}
...

Emm so what? We have certain modifiers assigned to "ALL ROUNDER" in stats/weaponmodifiers.txt. There's no problem if this string is aliased to some other constant in the code, this column in stats/weapons.txt still affects weapon damage to various targets.
_______________
As far as i understand now, units attacked by flamers take X damage instantly, then Y damage per second as long as it stay on burning ground, then Z damage for fixed amount of T seconds of burning animation, where X is damage x modifier - thermal armor, Y = incendiary damage - thermal armor, Z = 15 - thermal armor. Right?

[crab_]

ALL ROUNDER is damage modifier
Field 'weaponEffect' is field which serves to store weapon damage modifier.

Code: Select all

damage += baseDamage * (asWeaponModifier[weaponEffect][propulsion] - 100);

You can see damage modifiers here:
https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... difier.txt

As far as i understand now, units attacked by flamers take X damage instantly, then Y damage per second as long as it stay on burning ground, then Z damage for fixed amount of T seconds of burning animation, where X is damage x modifier - thermal armor, Y = incendiary damage - thermal armor, Z = 15 - thermal armor. Right?

Correct.
Z = Max(15 - ThermalArmor; 15/3)

[crab_]

I have edited last version of patch.
Added changes made by vexed in my version of patch (v7)

Patch:

0001-Balance-Patch-v.8 (vexed).patch

(37.55 KiB) Downloaded 265 times

Mod.wz:

balance_for3.1_ver8_vexed.wz

(48.11 KiB) Downloaded 279 times

for MGs..

Spoiler:

• Nerf machineguns. Reduce role of machineguns as meat shields.
  • Twin Machinegun:
    • Hit Points 125->75.
  • Heavy Machinegun:
    • Hit Points 150->75.
  • Assault Gun:
    • Hit Points 250->125.
  • Twin Assault Gun:
    • Hit Points 300->125.
  • Modifiers:
    • vs. Halftracks: 60->50.
    • vs. Tracks: 50->40.
    • vs. Medium structures: 80->60.
    • vs. Hard structures: 50->40.
    • vs. Bunkers: 75->50.
  • Upgrades:
    • First ROF Upgrade 17->20.
    • Second ROF Upgrade 34->38.
    • Third ROF Upgrade 50->45.

for Cannons...

Spoiler:

• Buff cannons, in order to match them up with rockets.
  • Light cannon
    • Hit Points 200->250.
    • Research Points 2400->1800.
    • Build Points 375 -> 330
    • Build Points 375 -> 320
  • Hyper Velocity Cannon:
    • Firepause 50 -> 43
  • Assault cannon:
    • Damage 35->40, Splash 25->35.
    • Build Points 800 -> 650 confirmed

Incendiary stuff...

Spoiler:

• Nerf flamers. Increase thermal armor of bodies in early game. Don't let flamer hovers chase other hovers.
  • Flamer:
    • Hit points 40->10 confirmed
    • Price 40->60
    • Incendiary Damage 28->20
  • Flamer Cyborg:
    • Hit points 40->10 confirmed
    • Price 50->65
    • Incendiary Damage 22->15
  • Inferno:
    • Hit points 75->15 confirmed
    • Price 110->130.
    • Weight 500->5000.
    • Incendiary Damage 32->28 confirmed
  • Thermite Flamer Cyborg:
    • Price 80->100
    • Incendiary Damage 32->26
  • Plasmite Flamer:
    • Price 130->160
    • Weight 750->5000
    • Incendiary Damage 50->42 confirmed
  • Incendiary Mortar:
    • Incendiary Radius 192->128
    • Splash Damage 70 -> 50 confirmed
    • Damage 90 -> 80
  • Incendiary Howitzer:
    • Incendiary Damage 32->24
  • Thermite Bomb:
    • Incendiary Damage 120->95
    • Build Points 1000->1500
    • Damage 400 -> 370 confirmed
  • Plasmite Bomb:
    • Incendiary Damage 140->115
    • Build Points 1000->2000
    • Splash Damage 1000 -> 875 confirmed
    • type ALL ROUNDER -> ARTILLERY ROUND rejected
    • type ALL ROUNDER -> ARTILLERY ROUND
  • No change to thermal armor

for Hovers...

Spoiler:

• Nerf hovers.
  • Hover propulsion:
    • Price 100->150.
    • Hit Points 150->100.

for Transports...

Spoiler:

• Nerf transports.
  • • Cyborg transports
    • Weapons removed
    • Super Transporter
    • Weapon HMG->MG rejected: transport does not require weapon
    • Weapons removed

for Arty ...

Spoiler:

• Ground shaker nerfed. Howitzer improved.
  • Ground Shaker:
    • Range 78 -> 64
  • Howitzer
    • Firepause (ROF) 150 -> 122 confirmed
    • Range 35 -> 40

tech research

Spoiler:

• Move lasers earlier.
  • Flashlight:
    • Pre-requisites: NSRB Mk2->NSRB Mk1.
    • Don't auto-upgrade to Pulse Laser.
    • Damage 80 -> 100

Detailed change log (made by program)

Spoiler:

*** weapons.txt ***
Changed item: Plasmite Flamer [PlasmiteFlamer]
-Field Name: 'Build Power' old value:130 new value: 160
-Field Name: 'Weight' old value:750 new value: 5000
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:50 new value: 42
Changed item: Incendiary Mortar [Mortar-Incenediary]
-Field Name: 'Damage' old value:90 new value: 80
-Field Name: 'Splash damage' old value:70 new value: 50
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Radius' old value:192 new value: 128
Changed item: Twin Assault Gun [MG5TWINROTARY]
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:300 new value: 125
Changed item: Assault Gun [MG4ROTARYMk1]
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:250 new value: 125
Changed item: Heavy Machinegun [MG3Mk1]
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:150 new value: 75
Changed item: Twin Machinegun [MG2Mk1]
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:125 new value: 75
Changed item: Flashlight [Laser3BEAMMk1]
-Field Name: 'Damage' old value:80 new value: 100
Changed item: Ground Shaker [Howitzer150Mk1]
-Field Name: 'Long Range' old value:9984 new value: 8192
Changed item: Howitzer [Howitzer105Mk1]
-Field Name: 'Long Range' old value:4992 new value: 5120
-Field Name: 'Firepause (10=1s)' old value:150 new value: 122
Changed item: Incendiary Howitzer [Howitzer-Incenediary]
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:32 new value: 24
Changed item: Inferno [Flame2]
-Field Name: 'Build Power' old value:110 new value: 130
-Field Name: 'Weight' old value:500 new value: 5000
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:75 new value: 15
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:32 new value: 28
Changed item: Flamer [Flame1Mk1]
-Field Name: 'Build Power' old value:40 new value: 60
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:40 new value: 10
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:28 new value: 20
Changed item: Flamer [CyborgFlamer01]
-Field Name: 'Build Power' old value:50 new value: 65
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:40 new value: 10
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:22 new value: 15
Changed item: *Cybrog Thermite Weapon* [Cyb-Wpn-Thermite]
-Field Name: 'Build Power' old value:80 new value: 100
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:32 new value: 26
Changed item: *Cyb-Wpn-Laser* [Cyb-Wpn-Laser]
-Field Name: 'Damage' old value:70 new value: 90
Changed item: Assault Cannon [Cannon5VulcanMk1]
-Field Name: 'Build Points' old value:800 new value: 650
-Field Name: 'Damage' old value:35 new value: 40
-Field Name: 'Splash damage' old value:25 new value: 30
Changed item: Hyper Velocity Cannon [Cannon4AUTOMk1]
-Field Name: 'Firepause (10=1s)' old value:50 new value: 43
Changed item: Light Cannon [Cannon1Mk1]
-Field Name: 'Build Points' old value:375 new value: 320
-Field Name: 'HP' old value:200 new value: 250
Changed item: VTOL Plasmite Bomb Bay [Bomb5-VTOL-Plasmite]
-Field Name: 'Build Points' old value:1000 new value: 2000
-Field Name: 'Splash damage' old value:1000 new value: 875
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:140 new value: 115
-Field Name: 'Weapon Class' old value:ALL ROUNDER new value: ARTILLERY ROUND
Changed item: VTOL Thermite Bomb Bay [Bomb4-VTOL-HvyINC]
-Field Name: 'Build Points' old value:1000 new value: 1500
-Field Name: 'Damage' old value:400 new value: 370
-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage' old value:120 new value: 95
*** structures.txt ***
*** names.txt ***
*** resstrings.txt ***
*** propulsion.txt ***
Changed item: Hover [hover01]
-Field Name: 'Build power' old value:100 new value: 150
-Field Name: 'Body points' old value:150 new value: 100
*** weaponmodifier.txt ***
Changed item: [ANTI PERSONNEL Half-Tracked]
-Field Name: 'Modifier' old value:60 new value: 50
Changed item: [ANTI PERSONNEL Tracked]
-Field Name: 'Modifier' old value:50 new value: 40
*** terraintable.txt ***
*** prresearch.txt ***
New item: [R-Wpn-Laser01 R-Struc-Research-Upgrade07]
-Field Name: 'ResearchCode new value: R-Wpn-Laser01
-Field Name: 'PreresearchCode new value: R-Struc-Research-Upgrade07
-Field Name: 'number new value: 531
DELETED item: [R-Wpn-Laser01 R-Struc-Research-Upgrade08]
*** resultstructure.txt ***
*** resultcomponent.txt ***
Changed item: [R-Wpn-Laser02 Laser2PULSE-VTOL]
-Field Name: 'Unused1_Expr_rc' old value:Laser3BEAM-VTOL new value: 0
-Field Name: 'Unused2_Expr_rc' old value:WEAPON new value: 0
Changed item: [R-Wpn-Laser02 Laser2PULSEMk1]
-Field Name: 'Unused1_Expr_rc' old value:Laser3BEAMMk1 new value: 0
-Field Name: 'Unused2_Expr_rc' old value:WEAPON new value: 0
*** redcomponents.txt ***
*** redstructure.txt ***
*** researchstruct.txt ***
*** functions.txt ***
Changed item: [Wpn-MG-ROF01]
-Field Name: 'param1' old value:17 new value: 20
Changed item: [Wpn-MG-ROF02]
-Field Name: 'param1' old value:34 new value: 38
Changed item: [Wpn-MG-ROF03]
-Field Name: 'param1' old value:50 new value: 45
*** researchfunctions.txt ***
*** structureweapons.txt ***
*** structurefunctions.txt ***
*** structuremodifier.txt ***
Changed item: [ANTI PERSONNEL MEDIUM]
-Field Name: 'Modifier (%)' old value:80 new value: 60
Changed item: [ANTI PERSONNEL HARD]
-Field Name: 'Modifier (%)' old value:50 new value: 40
Changed item: [ANTI PERSONNEL BUNKER]
-Field Name: 'Modifier (%)' old value:75 new value: 50
*** construction.txt ***
*** repair.txt ***
*** weaponsounds.txt ***
*** templates.txt ***
Changed item: Cyborg Transport [Transporter]
-Field Name: 'Weapons' old value:1 new value: 0
Changed item: Super Transport [SuperTransport]
-Field Name: 'Weapons' old value:1 new value: 0
*** assignweapons.txt ***
DELETED item: [Transporter MG3-VTOL]
DELETED item: [SuperTransport MG1-VTOL]
*** sensor.txt ***
*** brain.txt ***
*** features.txt ***
*** bodypropulsionimd.txt ***

[crab_]

Tested flamers in few games (maps StartUp, Vision).
flamers vs MGs - flamers win
flamers vs cannons (flamers 2 win, 1 lose)

I can say it is hard to fight against flamers!
Cannon guy have to research both MG and cannons.
Pure flamer vs pure cannon - flamer win.

Our testers: Redemptor, [BRO]Rotor. Thank you guys