Removing the max research cost limit

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Per
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Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Per » 30 Jan 2013, 20:46

There is a limit on how much a research item can cost, capped at 450, enforced at the C++ code level. This makes no sense. If a limit was desired, surely the sensible way to implement it would be to change the stats to cap them there. So I would like to remove this hard-coded limit. What I'm not sure about, is what to do about all the research items that exceed this limit in MP. These are:

Code: Select all

Cyborg Superdense Thermal Armor Mk2 now costs 500
Cyborg Superdense Thermal Armor Mk3 now costs 562
Vehicle Superdense Thermal Armor now costs 531
Vehicle Superdense Thermal Armor Mk2 now costs 593
Vehicle Superdense Thermal Armor Mk3 now costs 656
Medium Body - Retribution now costs 900
Heavy Body - Vengeance now costs 1350
Pulse Laser now costs 900
Rail Gun now costs 900
Gauss Cannon now costs 1350
Cyborg Superdense Composite Alloys Mk3 now costs 487
Superdense Composite Alloys Mk2 now costs 487
Superdense Composite Alloys Mk3 now costs 550
Vindicator SAM Site now costs 900
Archangel Missile Battery now costs 900
Plascrete Mk3 now costs 500
Advanced Base Structure Materials Mk3 now costs 500
Gas Turbine Engine Mk2 now costs 468
Gas Turbine Engine Mk3 now costs 531
Hi-Energy Laser Emitter Mk2 now costs 900
Hi-Energy Laser Emitter Mk3 now costs 1350
Thermopole Energizer Mk2 now costs 900
Thermopole Energizer Mk3 now costs 1350
Search & Destroy Missiles now costs 900
Advanced Missile Warhead Mk2 now costs 900
Advanced Missile Warhead Mk3 now costs 1350
Advanced Missile Allocation System Mk2 now costs 900
Advanced Missile Allocation System Mk3 now costs 1350
Hardened Rail Dart Mk2 now costs 900
Hardened Rail Dart Mk3 now costs 1350
Rail Gun ROF Mk2 now costs 900
Rail Gun ROF Mk3 now costs 1350
Mass Driver Fortress now costs 1562
High Intensity Thermal Armor Mk3 now costs 468
Vindicator SAM now costs 900
Archangel Missile now costs 900
Heavy Laser now costs 1125
Heavy Laser Emplacement now costs 637
Wide Spectrum Sensor Tower now costs 512
Satellite Uplink Center now costs 900
Laser Satellite Command Post now costs 1768
EMP Cannon Tower now costs 900
Missile Fortress now costs 1562
Plasteel now costs 562
Plasteel Mk2 now costs 687
Plasteel Mk3 now costs 750
Heavy Body - Wyvern now costs 1562
Multi Turret Body - Dragon now costs 1718
Superhot Plasmite gel Mk2 now costs 475
Superhot Plasmite gel Mk3 now costs 537
Advanced Manufacturing now costs 475
Self-Replicating Manufacturing now costs 600
EMP Mortar now costs 625
Stormbringer AA Laser now costs 900
EMP Mortar Pit now costs 900
Vindicator Hardpoint now costs 937
Whirlwind Hardpoint now costs 937
EMP Cannon now costs 900
AA Flak Cannon Hardpoint now costs 937
Avenger Hardpoint now costs 937
Twin Assault Gun now costs 468
Twin Assault Gun Hardpoint now costs 468
Plasmite Bomb now costs 625
EMP Missile Launcher now costs 781
Depleted Uranium MG Bullets now costs 475
One idea is to cap them all at 450, then everything will be like before. Another idea is to halve or third the excess over 400, so that they get a bit higher than 400, but not so much as above. A third idea is to leave it as it is, and see how it turns out. Maybe people will focus more on getting research lab upgrades, and it will just balance out that way. Maybe we can delay changing things until later.

Your opinion? Put it below.

Per
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Per » 30 Jan 2013, 20:48

Also, in gamma campaign, these would change:

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Medium Body - Retribution now costs 900
Heavy Body - Vengeance now costs 1350
NEXUS Resistance Circuits now costs 781
NEXUS Resistance Circuits Mk2 now costs 1093
NEXUS Resistance Circuits Mk3 now costs 1406
Pulse Laser now costs 900
Rail Gun now costs 900
Gauss Cannon now costs 1350
Cyborg Superdense Composite Alloys Mk3 now costs 487
Superdense Composite Alloys Mk2 now costs 487
Superdense Composite Alloys Mk3 now costs 550
Vindicator SAM Site now costs 900
Gauss Cannon Emplacement now costs 900
Archangel Missile Battery now costs 900
Plascrete Mk3 now costs 500
Advanced Base Structure Materials Mk3 now costs 500
Gas Turbine Engine Mk2 now costs 468
Gas Turbine Engine Mk3 now costs 531
Hi-Energy Laser Emitter Mk2 now costs 900
Hi-Energy Laser Emitter Mk3 now costs 1350
Thermopole Energizer Mk2 now costs 900
Thermopole Energizer Mk3 now costs 1350
Search & Destroy Missiles now costs 900
Advanced Missile Warhead Mk2 now costs 900
Advanced Missile Warhead Mk3 now costs 1350
Advanced Missile Allocation System Mk2 now costs 900
Advanced Missile Allocation System Mk3 now costs 1350
Hardened Rail Dart Mk2 now costs 900
Hardened Rail Dart Mk3 now costs 1350
Rail Gun ROF Mk2 now costs 900
Rail Gun ROF Mk3 now costs 1350
High Intensity Thermal Armor Mk3 now costs 468
Missile Targeting Codes now costs 1718
Second Level Missile Targeting Codes now costs 1812
Third Level Missile Firing Codes now costs 1875
NEXUS Intruder Program now costs 1250
Vindicator SAM now costs 900
Archangel Missile now costs 900
Probably less ideal to leave these at enlarged values.

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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Reg312 » 30 Jan 2013, 20:55

My opinion: "Another idea is to halve the excess over 400" - for Multiplayer

Many things in later game totally unbalanced.
For now is ok to set price just a bit higher, but in futher patches price of each research in later game can be reviewed.
e.g. price of Satellite Uplink can be increased, while price of black bodies and some weapons can be kept as it is



Gamma campaign: keep 450.

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NoQ
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by NoQ » 30 Jan 2013, 21:00

Am i right to believe that while price is capped at 450, research points required are still uncapped? That is, if we decrease research points to 450 together with the price, it will take much less time to research them, for the same price as before?

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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Reg312 » 30 Jan 2013, 21:03

NoQ wrote:Am i right to believe that while price is capped at 450, research points required are still uncapped? That is, if we decrease research points to 450 together with the price, it will take much less time to research them, for the same price as before?
Price and time will be made separate.
e.g. user will be able set 0 price and 100500 minutes to research something

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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 30 Jan 2013, 21:30

I'd say simply defining a research price cap of $450 in rules.js is the way to go.
NoQ wrote:Am i right to believe that while price is capped at 450, research points required are still uncapped? That is, if we decrease research points to 450 together with the price, it will take much less time to research them, for the same price as before?
I believe that research times are kept intact, even if the cost is capped.
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by aubergine » 30 Jan 2013, 22:38

The hard-coded cap should be removed. Then let people try out new higher prices to see what the main balance effects are.

If price is linked to research points, as NoQ was asking about, that also needs sorting out as per Reg312's comment.
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Iluvalar » 30 Jan 2013, 22:43

I'd say, Add an expensive (~1000$) x2 lab (or x3 without modules) and 3 more research upgrades. To keep the research speed decent for people that want to go deep into T3.

And give it a go like that. I believe having all T3 weapons more expensive will give a better opportunity to T2 late weapons like cannons that would still be upgradable instead of jumping that fast on needle each time. And I think I wont hurt that much if there is a way to increase the speed. I think T3 players have plenty of power to spend on that.
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Per » 30 Jan 2013, 23:12

Reg312 wrote:
NoQ wrote:Am i right to believe that while price is capped at 450, research points required are still uncapped? That is, if we decrease research points to 450 together with the price, it will take much less time to research them, for the same price as before?
Price and time will be made separate.
e.g. user will be able set 0 price and 100500 minutes to research something
Yes, the two are separate, and the correct solution is to split them apart in the future-to-be research.ini file, so time will be untouched :)

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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Reg312 » 30 Jan 2013, 23:22

@Iluvalar agreed with your ideas :)

research dramatically fast in early game and stupidly slow in later game
Per wrote:...in the future-to-be research.ini file, so time will be untouched :)
research.ini present already
research.ini
(156.95 KiB) Downloaded 173 times
[/size]
but it needs some advices and corrections

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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by aubergine » 30 Jan 2013, 23:41

<off-topic>
If work is being done on research.ini, could the messages/resmessages*.rmsg content be put directly in to research.ini?

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[R-<whatever>]
...
#msgName <-- this would be removed
text = _("line 1 \n line 2 \n line 3 \n line 4")
imdName = "<whatver>.pie" # I've no idea what this actually means
sequenceName = "res_<whatever>.ogg"
This will help ensure that research messages are kept in sync with technologies, something I believe Goth had lots of trouble with in cam4.
</off-topic>
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Per
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Per » 31 Jan 2013, 09:19

Reg312 wrote:research.ini present already
research.in
[/size]
but it needs some advices and corrections
Looks nice! Where there are no values, you should just drop the keys as well. Also it would be nice to have the full name (from strings.txt) in there.

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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Nameless » 31 Jan 2013, 11:37

Personally I'd say you should cap them at 450 ( but then again I'm also one of those players who don't make it up that far because the game is/was already decided early on).
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Reg312 » 31 Jan 2013, 12:13

Per wrote:
Reg312 wrote:research.ini present already
The attachment research.in is no longer available
[/size]
but it needs some advices and corrections
Looks nice! Where there are no values, you should just drop the keys as well. Also it would be nice to have the full name (from strings.txt) in there.
see
research.ini
(113.07 KiB) Downloaded 166 times
[/size]
my patch ready, but it was writen fast, i have to review&test code more carefully
https://github.com/crabster/warzone2100 ... 10f7625833
https://github.com/crabster/warzone2100 ... 20a082f839
*price of research is still capped by 450, but now this is unhardcoded
Last edited by Reg312 on 31 Jan 2013, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.

Per
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Re: Removing the max research cost limit

Post by Per » 31 Jan 2013, 12:26

I'm loving it.

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