Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

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Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 08 Nov 2010, 19:43

AI has well defended base in map center

Player starts with a slow trickle of scav units

You may not build anything

Destroying special buildings drops crates to recover, recovering a crate gives you a infinite trickle of a certain unit

player units arrive by transport every 30 seconds
starting transport load is 3 random scav units, 1 good one(fire truck body) and 2 weak ones(trike, buggy)
Destroying special buildings drops crates to recover, recovering a crate gives you a extra unit per load of a type defined by the crate

object is to destroy all of building x, players compete for best time


Can I make the above outline into a challenge or will I have to make a mini campaign out of it?
Can i change the transport load with artifacts?

I am not looking for someone to do my scripting for me but any pointers on where to look for help/examples would be appreciated.
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby NoQ » 08 Nov 2010, 21:30

No, challenges are rather simple, you can't make this much with just challenges. The closest thing to what you're saying i've heard about is Dylan Dog's campaign mod.
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Rman Virgil » 08 Nov 2010, 21:54

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It can, and has been done successfully since July '99, as what were called for many years "original map-mods with custom a.i. scripting" for Ski Mode.

See this very recent discussion were its WZ history & methodology is discussed. I also provide actual scripts from one I worked on with Laws245 called Citadel Elite (whose aggregate marvels have never been duplicated, I might add):

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6918

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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 09 Nov 2010, 18:58

So it can be encapsulated in a challenge without making problems like other map mods?
aka messing up multiplayer
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Rman Virgil » 09 Nov 2010, 19:11

milo christiansen wrote:So it can be encapsulated in a challenge without making problems like other map mods?
aka messing up multiplayer


Correct. How it was done in the 4-Player CE: Players 0-3 could be played by a human or the stock Ski A.I...... "The Citadel" had it's own a.i. scripting apart from 0-3.

EDIT: Theoretically you can re-write the stock Baba A.I. .slo & .vlo and make your map 4-player (0-3) with Player 7 positioned as you will. This would also be a sure-fire encapsullation utilizing the current UI and structure.

- Regards, RV 8)

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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 12 Nov 2010, 21:42

The PLAYER is getting all the customization. I plan to use the stock AI as much as possible.

The transports will bring in units for the PLAYER and NO ONE can build ANYTHING.

My number one questions are "Can challenges run campaign style scripts?" and "How do I change the transport load during the game based on what artifacts the player has recovered?".

btw: what is a good campaign script to look at for transport drops in general?

Thanks for the link to the citadel elite stuff. I'll rip that apart an see if any of it is applicable.
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Rman Virgil » 13 Nov 2010, 03:36

milo christiansen wrote:The PLAYER is getting all the customization. I plan to use the stock AI as much as possible.

The transports will bring in units for the PLAYER and NO ONE can build ANYTHING.

My number one questions are "Can challenges run campaign style scripts?" and "How do I change the transport load during the game based on what artifacts the player has recovered?".

btw: what is a good campaign script to look at for transport drops in general?

Thanks for the link to the citadel elite stuff. I'll rip that apart an see if any of it is applicable.


I'll just try to answer a couple of those questions at this time (I'm not sure about your others - like using CAM style scripts in Challenges)...

:hmm: Sounds like what you wanna do with the Unit Transporter is spawn it already loaded with units for the player to use. Am I understanding that correctly ?

If yes that's really different than how the scripts in CAM written for the player's use of the Transporter - which is the Player filling them with units he's manufactured and then the Transporter going to pre-scripted LZs.

What you probably need to look at is scripts that are used in CAM 1 where in the NP makes Transport drops of units like on that Plateau towards the later half of the missions sequence,

Something along the lines, perhaps, contained within this .slo:

http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/da ... cam1ca.slo

And the .vlo:

http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/da ... cam1ca.vlo


As for not allowing anyone to build anything...

Easiest way, of course, would be to place no factories or trucks. Factories is not a prob. Trucks I'm not sure if a map will even load without a couple trucks placed. You could always write a script that destroys all trucks one sec after the map is loaded but then you to have deal with Mission Failed which is triggered by no factories, no units, no trucks, nothing built. 'Course you are allowed to press Continue to Play.... but I don't really know how all that would work out, to be honest.

This is very different than anything that I have experience doing, btw.

- Rman :hmm:
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Mats » 14 Nov 2010, 18:29

You can just give the player a few units on the map to start with and one truck that is right in the middle of enemy base? Then you would not get mission failed and there is one less thing to worry about scripting.
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 15 Nov 2010, 20:08

Rman Virgil wrote::hmm: Sounds like what you wanna do with the Unit Transporter is spawn it already loaded with units for the player to use. Am I understanding that correctly ?

Yes

Rman Virgil wrote:What you probably need to look at is scripts that are used in CAM 1 where in the NP makes Transport drops of units like on that Plateau towards the later half of the missions sequence,


I was thinking of the mission where your fleeing your base and loading units on transports then in the next mission you get all the units you loaded in the first few loads and the last loads are all random hero units, Gamma 1 I think, but your example is good too. I'll look at both of them.

After a little research I am pretty sure that this won't work as a challenge, so a mini cam it will be.

Mats wrote:You can just give the player a few units on the map to start with and one truck that is right in the middle of enemy base? Then you would not get mission failed and there is one less thing to worry about scripting.


good idea! It'll take a little extra map work to keep a mission failed from happening but map work I can do, scripting is a little harder.
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 20 Nov 2010, 20:35

I have decided to make this a fastplay replacement, now to figure out how to get it working...
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Rman Virgil » 21 Nov 2010, 19:43

milo christiansen wrote:I have decided to make this a fastplay replacement, now to figure out how to get it working...


Wow, that's clever. In all these years never thought to do that. I'll have to look at the source myself and see if I can understand how that would work.

- Synergistically, Rman. :hmm:

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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 23 Nov 2010, 18:20

The proof of concept mod is finished!

I have tried to make the scripts as easy to modify as possible, the only thing you need to change to make it work with a different map is edit the vlo the only time you need to change the slo is if you change the number of templates, artifacts, buildings that give artifacts, or features that give artifacts. All coordinates in the vlo are in tile coordinates for easy modding.

Any questions, post them here.
Attachments
Scav Assault POC.mod.wz
Proof of Concept mod
(12.99 KiB) Downloaded 362 times
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Rman Virgil » 24 Nov 2010, 23:56

.

1st - I have to say using your technique here opens up a whole new world of possibilities for creating fresh Mini-CAMs that is inspiring and elegant. Good work. :) Like I said, I never in all these years thought to use Fast Play for anything let alone to create Mini-CAMs.

2nd - There have been efforts over the years by folks wanting to create Mini-CAMs (6-8 Missions on 250 x 250 Map, for example) using the Main Campaign Structure that haven't much gotten off the ground because of the daunting tasks involved. This technique of yours is way more straightforward, not nearly as daunting, and I can see these same folks being able to more readily achieve their desires-goals-visions in creating this CAM mode of game play by using this Fast Play technique rather than the Main Campaign Structure. You can even do Mission Briefs using the Intelligence Reports. Very cool and innovative. :3

3rd - As for loading the MOD - I must be doing something wrong cause I couldn't get it to load as a Global via Command Line. :oops:

What I ended up doing was replacing by hand the Default FP .wrf with yours and then dropping your Scav .slo and .vlo into the base.wz FP script folder.

May be worth composing, in time as the technique is thoroughly explored, a How To Create a Mini-CAM Tut in Fast Play. I can see this proliferating both as a new venue for creators and as a new entertainment for players who don't much do MP. (And there are a lot of those folks - in the past they have out-numbered MPers by a country mile at least. Guessing that has not much changed.)

Perhaps as well, a New Mini-CAM BB and a new catagory in Add Ons.

Excuse the unabashed gushing. It is much to do with seeing myself working deeply in this fertile mode when I get back to WZ creating anew in '11. To be sure, I thank you for unearthing and laying out these nuts and bolts for exploring what to me is obviously the yet to be realized power and wide ranging scope of fresh creation and game play within the Fast Play Mode structure. :D

- Regards, RV :hmm:
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby milo christiansen » 29 Nov 2010, 20:45

Rman Virgil wrote:3rd - As for loading the MOD - I must be doing something wrong cause I couldn't get it to load as a Global via Command Line. :oops:


Sorry, I should have specified to load as a cam mod, at least that's what works for me.

As for #1 & #2 Thank you very much.

I plan to make a series of easy to modify scripts for different kinds of fastplay mini cams as well as a general tutorial soon. Unfortunately I suck at making asymmetrical cam style maps so most will be nothing but the scripts and a test map.

:idea: If anyone has ideas for single mission cam structures (Nothing map specific please) I would like you to post them here. :idea:
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Re: Challenge mini cam:Scav Assault

Postby Rman Virgil » 30 Nov 2010, 19:21

Rman Virgil wrote:3rd - As for loading the MOD - I must be doing something wrong cause I couldn't get it to load as a Global via Command Line. :oops:


milo christiansen wrote:Sorry, I should have specified to load as a cam mod, at least that's what works for me.


That's cool. Appreciate that info. I needed to get under the hood anyway. :)

milo christiansen wrote:As for #1 & #2 Thank you very much.


Simple acknowledgement, much deserved. :) Guess I'm old school that way. Part of my core credo. Just because this is now a FOSS game does not mean to me that originality should be taken for granted and made use of without the reciprocity of acknowledgment.

milo christiansen wrote:I plan to make a series of easy to modify scripts for different kinds of fastplay mini cams as well as a general tutorial soon.


Sweet. :D Even if at this time there seems no evidence of an overwhelming interest I guarantee that within 6 months there will be. I've seen the pattern over and over these last 6 years especially. Powerful originality will not appear to catch-on immediately but within 6 to 18 months it will be expropriated as if by magic, embraced as the natural way of things, and usually without any historical acknowledgment.

milo christiansen wrote:Unfortunately I suck at making asymmetrical cam style maps so most will be nothing but the scripts and a test map.


I have an idea, based on recent experiments I've been doing, that may be of use. I'll put it in your other thread. :3

milo christiansen wrote: :idea: If anyone has ideas for single mission cam structures (Nothing map specific please) I would like you to post them here. :idea:


Cool. I'll go through my archives. I have tons of scenarios in various stages of evo. I'll pick-out a couple & post'em later.

- Regards, RV :hmm:

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