Why do walls die needlessly?

Warzone 2.3.x series. (Unsupported!)
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armigus
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Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by armigus » 31 Jan 2010, 03:51

I'm not sure if this is a bug or a game play feature, but it's a problem I've been seeing with player AI through many iterations. Feel free to move this topic if I've put it in the wrong place.

All units, both my own and the enemy, have no compunction about shooting through and destroying walls to get at enemy units and structures. I have seen scavengers shooting their own walls down to get at me. In an earlier version of Warzone (2/2006) my troops did not shoot walls unless explicitly ordered to and no one shot their own structures. This tends to happen in the campaigns as the skirmish AI never builds walls.

Is there a way to restore the original behavior, even if a mod is required? My units were also more aggressive about engaging enemy units entering their vicinity than they are now. Maybe it's just a lower sight range but I doubt it.

Why is this a problem? In Alpha 1 of the 2/2006 version I could bypass the base with the flamer artifact, build repair units to sustain my army, and place units behind the flamer base to sit and feed on scavenger kills by the thousands. I needed to set the game timer high for a while so it would take a few hours instead of days but it worked well and built up a massive power supply as well.

Were the new AI rules deliberately designed to foil this strategy or was it some kind of oversight?

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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by crux » 04 Feb 2010, 00:49

good question

Per
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Per » 04 Feb 2010, 01:42

Yes, the AI firing rules were changed deliberately to foil wall-in strategies.

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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by 3drts » 11 Feb 2010, 18:29

Any way to stop structures from firing at walls?
I'm fine with an MG bunker trying to shoot a wall with a hardpoint/tower on the other side, but shooting a wall by itself.... bleh.

I mean on the one hand, it was nice that trucks couldn't put up towers and get through a wall you put up earlier....
I also thoroughly enjoyed "hollowing out" an enemy base- destroying everything but leaving the wall, then building hardpoints or replacement wall section in gaps that had been shot in the bases walls.

The wall became a patch work of colors (and shades of darkness if remaining walls were damaged and the defeated enemy didn't have self repair tech).

I like the way it looked, the way it showed the base had been conquered, not built, by me, like raising your flag over a castle the enemy once held, rather than dismantling it brick by brick and building a new castle.

I liked using an enemy wall as part of my defenses, even if it were a wall they just built across a gap as a delay method, I'll build towers right next to it, good luck getting a truck swarm in to start dismantling walls, hehe.

Now it seems my towers would just destroy the wall I built them in front of :(

Makes it much harder to use an enemies walls against them.

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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by icefire » 01 Mar 2010, 18:32

How it looks might be fine and all, but before if the guys base I was assaulting had a wall blocking a pinch point. I would deliberately build def behind it, because he couldn't destroy his own wall without alt-clicking them one by one, big annoyance. All the while my def would just fire at his tanks with no fear of getting hit. I used to do it all the time, and I knew myself that it was a cheap and unfair tactic. Which is why I'm glad they changed it.

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theArmourer
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by theArmourer » 12 Apr 2010, 00:34

Would it be possible to require you to target a wall before units open fire on it? Not Alt-click.
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Roux Le Corps
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Roux Le Corps » 14 May 2010, 23:06

and why do you get sight over walls? they seem to be pretty useless nowadays
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Dalton » 15 May 2010, 02:09

Roux Le Corps wrote:and why do you get sight over walls? they seem to be pretty useless nowadays
They are still useful for making a single opening and are better than spending a couple 100 oil for every HP. They are also good to put in front of defenses to make it more difficult. If you couldn't see over the wall that would be.. O_o

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Zarel
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Zarel » 15 May 2010, 06:18

Why do we get sight over walls? We really shouldn't...

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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by macuser » 16 May 2010, 00:21

Sight over walls yes, it should be fixed. But what about radar? Radar should still "see" over them.
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Roux Le Corps
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Roux Le Corps » 16 May 2010, 08:29

Towers and other tall objects sure they can see, but tanks and borgs shouldn't, or bunkers lol
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Kacen » 25 Jun 2010, 06:55

3drts wrote: I also thoroughly enjoyed "hollowing out" an enemy base- destroying everything but leaving the wall, then building hardpoints or replacement wall section in gaps that had been shot in the bases walls.

The wall became a patch work of colors (and shades of darkness if remaining walls were damaged and the defeated enemy didn't have self repair tech).

I like the way it looked, the way it showed the base had been conquered, not built, by me, like raising your flag over a castle the enemy once held, rather than dismantling it brick by brick and building a new castle.

I liked using an enemy wall as part of my defenses, even if it were a wall they just built across a gap as a delay method, I'll build towers right next to it, good luck getting a truck swarm in to start dismantling walls, hehe.

Now it seems my towers would just destroy the wall I built them in front of :(

Makes it much harder to use an enemies walls against them.
Wow, I thought I was the only one who liked to do this...

I think there should be perhaps a way to "convert" walls to your own, perhaps with a truck?

Like how in Supreme Commander engineers can capture things.

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Roux Le Corps
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Roux Le Corps » 25 Jun 2010, 07:25

hmm... nexus link affects buildings doesn't it?
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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by BaseCommanderPye » 05 Jul 2010, 00:32

Roux Le Corps wrote:Towers and other tall objects sure they can see, but tanks and borgs shouldn't, or bunkers lol
LOLZ!! I just had this wicked image of approaching a chokepoint blocked by a wall but your tanks can't see past it so you destroy it and this swarm of tanks and cyborgs comes at you from the other side. :lol2:

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Re: Why do walls die needlessly?

Post by Roux Le Corps » 08 Jul 2010, 04:37

thats the dream, ambushes would be so much easier to set up, you wouldn't know who's hiding behind what walls ^_^
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