New Turret

Improving the artwork in Warzone2100 - not for mod discussions

Re: New Turret

Postby Zarel » 10 Sep 2009, 18:51

Olrox wrote:hmm, 200 polygons or triangles? :rolleyes: Thelion was talking about triangles, but the game engine processes up to 10-sided not necessarily coplanar polygons, isn't it?
I remember a discussion about how the graphics were processed, that the game engine processed polygons then the GPU had them broken into triangles for processing anyway, or something like that, and I don't know if the engine had any significant changes in graphics processing...
In addition, I think that Watermelon (long time since I've last heard from him) spoke that the polygon limit for each .pie was 512, but the vertex limit was also 512. O_o

This topic has much information on what I'm speaking, may be interesting to take a look.

I would be very grateful if you could give us some light on those limits! xD

Well, as you say, polygons = triangles in the new renderer, so it's not like there's much of a difference. :P

While the polygon limit is 512, there's no reason not to stay below that, for better performance.

Anyway, polygon limit often depends on what component. Propulsions are often significantly lower polycount than, say, base structures.
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Re: New Turret

Postby thelion » 10 Sep 2009, 20:14

For two .pie parts, then, 1024 is the limit for vertexes?

The base part + [turret + gun] part in the last picture was exactly 596 triangles. (251 square faces). It had turret holes, etc.

New base part + [turret + gun] part itself is 400 triangles. (203 square faces) Its because of the hexagons for round surfaces.

New turret part + gun part itself, for vehicles, is only 312 triangles. (146 square faces)

I will post a picture when ~250 triangles for base part + [turret + gun] part = around 130 triangles per pie.
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Re: New Turret

Postby Olrox » 10 Sep 2009, 23:50

Well, I believe that there's no need to get paranoic with poly count after all. However, eliminating those that we won't notice, doing the things I've said before, won't lower the quality of the model, if the textures are well made.

Hmmm, I'll wait till we've got a more consistent path of implementing that into the game, before making the textures. It is somewhat time-consuming for it not to be used (5 hours, ahhhh, it's not a whole lot of time but it's precious time, lol) xD I've got to make a biology research for tomorrow, therefore I must not waste a minute.

I believe that if we aim for around 400 triangles for the turrets that should be just ok. I'll get a poly count for my model as soon as I finish that research. Then, maybe, I could even make a texture, just for fun (and for practice, of course) ;)
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Re: New Turret

Postby thelion » 11 Sep 2009, 20:38

If we post models in .pie via the 3ds to pie converter, then can that model be resized by someone vie pieslicer or blender so that is to scale with game models?

If so, then we can get the models into the game--once textured--by naming them as the original models and overwriting.
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Re: New Turret

Postby Olrox » 12 Sep 2009, 00:19

Correct. I don't know how it works actually, I imagine that the model must have some specific reference points in it, and I don't know how to make it correctly in pieslicer. Actually, I've tried to make something in pieslicer and it resulted in an epic fail, I'm kind of traumatized. O_o

If someone with enough experience could make some step-by-step guide for modifying the game models... a tutorial or something :P
Then I could learn it and do it myself :)

Someone knows if there's any already existing guide for that?
:rolleyes:
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Re: New Turret

Postby whippersnapper » 12 Sep 2009, 01:19

.

Olrox wrote:
Someone knows if there's any already existing guide for that?
:rolleyes:


Dancing Moogle's guides and tuts are still quite usful IMHO:

DM's Modding PIE Overview Guide

DM's Part 1 PieSlicer Tutorial

DM's Part 2 PieSlicer Tutorial

Then dovetail with the WRP's wiki entries:

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/Artwork

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/Creating3DContent

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/PIE_models

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/PIE_format

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/TxtEditing

Regards, whip :ninja:

BTW: DM was / is a superb artist, modder-coder and A.I. scriptor.. He created the first WZ Mechs 6 years ago but never released 'em. He moved on to work on FPS because of the advanced GFX possible with 'em compared to WZ. He also had (has still, no doubt) a great sense of humor. :)
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Re: New Turret

Postby Olrox » 12 Sep 2009, 07:52

That opens a door, I'm going in to see what's on the other side.
If I don't come back in about a week, ahm...
I'll be back. xD

Thank you very much Whip, that was very helpful! I'm going to have some structural materials resistance exam tomorrow by the morning, so I've got to study that. By the night, I'll eat those tuts alive and make some pies for dessert. Bad pun intended ;)
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Re: New Turret

Postby Olrox » 13 Sep 2009, 05:21

Pah, now I remember...
that damned 3ds2pie converter which needs to be compiled... grrrrrrr... :stressed:
Do I really need to learn programming? :stare:
In fact, I'm asking for help in the "3DS 2 PIE" topic at mapping & modding board.
It would be a pain in the ass to need to send every model for someone to convert into .pie and send 'em back to me. I hope that I can find some help.
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Re: New Turret

Postby whippersnapper » 13 Sep 2009, 07:35

Olrox wrote:Pah, now I remember...
that damned 3ds2pie converter which needs to be compiled... grrrrrrr... :stressed:
Do I really need to learn programming? :stare:
In fact, I'm asking for help in the "3DS 2 PIE" topic at mapping & modding board.
It would be a pain in the ass to need to send every model for someone to convert into .pie and send 'em back to me. I hope that I can find some help.


Re-post from converter thread:

Olrox wrote:hmmm...
I was thinking if I would need to learn C programming just to compile this... I've got a folder with

    3ds2pie.c
    3ds2pie_gui.cpp
    3ds2pie_gui.h
    3ds2pie_gui.pro
    3ds2pie_gui.ui
    3ds2pie_gui_de.ts
    COPYING
    main.cpp
I'm running Windows XP 32bits. Also, the "3ds2pie_gui.ui" shows as a file associated with 3dsmax.
Specifically, I just want to know how exactly can I build the executable.
If it's too painful to explain it all, just let me know, then I'll go learn programming. But getting my hands on an executable converter could make things *ALOT* easier, as I'm doing new art everyday and I do want to assemble a mod while I still have a little free time to do that.

Regards,
Olrox ;)



I just down-loaded Coverter r5209 from the following post and it's an executable that works right out of the box beautiful - no compiling necessary...

Looks like you got your hand's on the source download instead.

winsrp wrote:and by the way the link is not working.


DevUrandom wrote:Yes, the download server "lost" a few files in a hack.

I just fixed that, and uploaded a new compile of the converter r5209.

I didn't test it yet, though I do not assume there to be any problems, since source code and compilation environment should not have changed.

Update: Uploaded a new archive, this time with Qt dlls.


Here is how it looks after I took the files out of the .zip archive and just put 'em in a folder I named "3DS 2 Pie Converter" and launched the executable:

Image


Regards, whip :)
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Re: New Turret

Postby thelion » 15 Sep 2009, 02:23

Optimised Turret. [gun and turret: 312 triangles.] [Base: 148 triangles.] = 460 triangles as bunker
[gun: 210 triangles. turret: 90 triangles.] = 300 triangles as weapon for bodies.

~250 triangles less than turret posted on page 2.

Image

Anything which should be added/removed? But I guess a texture would have to add detail, however, there is room for more or less geometry in the base area or the turret - gun area.
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Re: New Turret

Postby Olrox » 15 Sep 2009, 14:54

I'd weld the barrels together or separate them more for the distance to be more evident. The barrel's pivot point seems too delicate, also (it's nearly the same width as the barrel itself :P ), therefore I'd rescale the gun's connection to the turret. That's more about proportionality than detailment itself :3
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Re: New Turret

Postby thelion » 16 Sep 2009, 02:38

Recoil Mechanism is 25% larger; distance between guns is 100% greater?

Image

Alternatively, the recoil mechanism is lengthened and widened 50%, whereas the guns are 25% longer, but of lower diameter.

Image
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Re: New Turret

Postby thelion » 22 Sep 2009, 16:50

Maximum spacing with fewer triangles.

286 tri top
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=294 ... 8392728592
148 tri bottom
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=059 ... 4018953992

I can upload in .pie. To use as weapon for bodies, use only 286. The model is separated into gun and turret, but for bunker or hardpoint, gun and turret are one model.
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