Modeling Request - i do it!

Improving the artwork in Warzone2100 - not for mod discussions
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whippersnapper
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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by whippersnapper » 24 Jul 2009, 23:25

astorian wrote:.....

But right now i am going to sleep. :|
Hehe, indeed, there is always that to take into account. ;)

Good info you posted there astorian and I do like your Upgraded Research Lab Model. :)

What Coyote is meaning is NOT using a base-plate at all. I like that idea on the Urban Tertiles because the 2 color schemes work well together - Model without base plate & Tertiles. But another consideration is that without that base-plate there will be no flattening deformation of uneven terrain which results in parts of the model being covered by terrain which you can see those results quickly if you use the model as a "Feature" in 32EW. Course there can be a "Base Plate Effect" without actually seeing a base-plate - if you get my drift (a transparent base plate). Anyway, I'm starting to ramble.

But one other thing that has come up again for me is how totally whack "scale" actually is in WZ. How this relates to your bigger base plate for the upgraded Research Lab as last modeled is that, to my eye at least, I like the scale of the model as it is.... and, again, my subjective perception is that scaling the model back to go on a smaller base plate just wouldn't look as good.

I'll leave it there for now...

regards, whip :cool:
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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by fisk0 » 25 Jul 2009, 03:43

whippersnapper wrote: my subjective perception is that scaling the model back to go on a smaller base plate just wouldn't look as good.

I'll leave it there for now...

regards, whip :cool:
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that's my opinion too.
the model looks awesome, and really looks like it should be a huge building, not something the size of the cyborg factory.
the earlier model with only two "towers" I would have said should have been at the size 4x2 (possibly even 6x4), not 2x1 as someone proposed earlier.
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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by Zarel » 25 Jul 2009, 06:09

fisk0 wrote:that's my opinion too.
the model looks awesome, and really looks like it should be a huge building, not something the size of the cyborg factory.
the earlier model with only two "towers" I would have said should have been at the size 4x2 (possibly even 6x4), not 2x1 as someone proposed earlier.
...um, I don't think you know how big 4x2 or 6x4 is...

You do realize 6x4 is about half the size of an average Warzone base? For a single structure?

Also, you do realize that other than the factory and VTOL factory, the largest Warzone structure is 2x2? There are very important balance reasons for that.

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by Thyranim » 25 Jul 2009, 21:34

6x4 O_O
bigger size as 2 factories ? O_o

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by Buginator » 26 Jul 2009, 06:40

astorian wrote:Hello,
i have finished the research building (power lab) pie.
- The size is changed to fit the base plate.
- The textures are fixed to pixels, orientation and connection is fixed too.
- The team color textures are done. I used the flat strip that goes around the building.

Files are attached.

Please let me know if there are some issues.
Astorian
Astorian, just wanted to say, you are in a class of your own, you managed to figure out how to do this stuff in short order, and actually get it into the game as well.

Well done, keep up the good work!
and it ends here.

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by astorian » 26 Jul 2009, 15:00

Thyranim wrote:increased size from 2x2 to 3x3 while zarel asked for a possibility to shrink size to 2x1 hmm ...
but nevertheless, why incresing the baseplate? why not decreasing building-size instead ?
Hi Thyranim, well my first understanding of 2x1 baseplate as Zarel stated was actually take two research base plates together. I did not understand his request.
If i decrease the building to fit the 2x1 baseplate it would look very small and there would be only one possibility of upgrading the building - add/change some mesh up (higher structure
whippersnapper wrote: Hehe, indeed, there is always that to take into account. ;)

Good info you posted there astorian and I do like your Upgraded Research Lab Model. :)

What Coyote is meaning is NOT using a base-plate at all. I like that idea on the Urban Tertiles because the 2 color schemes work well together - Model without base plate & Tertiles. But another consideration is that without that base-plate there will be no flattening deformation of uneven terrain which results in parts of the model being covered by terrain which you can see those results quickly if you use the model as a "Feature" in 32EW. Course there can be a "Base Plate Effect" without actually seeing a base-plate - if you get my drift (a transparent base plate). Anyway, I'm starting to ramble.

But one other thing that has come up again for me is how totally whack "scale" actually is in WZ. How this relates to your bigger base plate for the upgraded Research Lab as last modeled is that, to my eye at least, I like the scale of the model as it is.... and, again, my subjective perception is that scaling the model back to go on a smaller base plate just wouldn't look as good.
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Hi whippersnapper, as always i enjoyed reading of your post.
I would also use no baseplate, or i would add something like an flat proportional extension of the structure model on the ground copying the lowest (ground touching) edges and texture them. Also the flattering as i can see is not bound to the base plate - i used a baseplate smaller than the flattering and the baseplate was smaller than the flattering - what i think means, that you don't have to use the base plate at all, the flattering is an attribute of the structure (looks that way at least)
I agree about the scales in WZ.
fisk0 wrote: that's my opinion too.
the model looks awesome, and really looks like it should be a huge building, not something the size of the cyborg factory.
the earlier model with only two "towers" I would have said should have been at the size 4x2 (possibly even 6x4), not 2x1 as someone proposed earlier.
Hi fisk0, i am glad you like my model.
I agree with Zarel - 6x4 is far to big for the model. The factory is 3x3 sized so 6x4 would be too big.
Buginator wrote: Astorian, just wanted to say, you are in a class of your own, you managed to figure out how to do this stuff in short order, and actually get it into the game as well.

Well done, keep up the good work!
Hi Buginator, thank you very much, it means a lot to me.

Now some infos for all.
Its still weekend so i am not working on the models. I start tomorrow - depends on if i am busy in work too.
It looks like i have to divide the Research lab into two fields.
One is the finishing of the Research building (+ upgraded building if they want it) for WZ developers (if they still want it) changed according to their specification.
Second is finish the models how i would like them to look, or i feel they look best.
Third is changing the models according to specifications of people seriously adding it to WZ mods or maps.

I am positively surprised about the number of posts you all done here, thank you for ideas and critics. :)
Best regars,
Astorian

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by astorian » 28 Jul 2009, 10:04

Hello Per and Zarel,
I have changed the orientation, size alignment of the research building and baseplate.
Here is the screen shot:
Image
I have changed also the structures.txt (red are the changed values) :
A0ResearchFacility,RESEARCH,Level All,MEDIUM,1,1,2,Concrete,500,2,10,400,100,100,30,150,255,10,ZNULLECM,DefaultSensor1Mk1,0,BLRESCH0.PIE,blbresch.pie,1,0
You can also see the white rectangle when you are placing the structure to build on desired place.
The structure is a little bit smaller than the base-plate. Is the sizing ok?
I did not texture the base-plate yet, since i don't know if the size is ok.
Please let me know.
(i had a little time so i worked on it.)
Astorian

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by Per » 28 Jul 2009, 16:40

So what is this building meant to be used for? If I were to come up with something, I'd suggest it is required for the effect of and is enabled by the last power upgrade research items. When we get the limited power storage idea implemented, it could also add lots of power storage. Ideally, though, it would do or show something when clicked on.

I think the new size of the power research lab is good. It looks really nice.

I must admit I am not terribly fond of 1x2 structures. They look geometrically odd. I think I would rather center the power research lab on a 2x2 base plate and have some cool power-grid-inspired drawings on the base plate. What do other people think?

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by whippersnapper » 28 Jul 2009, 19:14

astorian wrote:
I would also use no baseplate, or i would add something like an flat proportional extension of the structure model on the ground copying the lowest (ground touching) edges and texture them. Also the flattering as i can see is not bound to the base plate - i used a baseplate smaller than the flattering and the baseplate was smaller than the flattering - what i think means, that you don't have to use the base plate at all, the flattering is an attribute of the structure (looks that way at least)
I see. Good to know how that actually works. :)

astorian wrote:
I have changed the orientation, size alignment of the research building and baseplate.
Here is the screen shot:

Image

I have changed also the structures.txt (red are the changed values) :
A0ResearchFacility,RESEARCH,Level All,MEDIUM,1,1,2,Concrete,500,2,10,400,100,100,30,150,255,10,ZNULLECM,DefaultSensor1Mk1,0,BLRESCH0.PIE,blbresch.pie,1,0

You can also see the white rectangle when you are placing the structure to build on desired place.

The structure is a little bit smaller than the base-plate. Is the sizing ok?

I did not texture the base-plate yet, since i don't know if the size is ok.

Please let me know.
(i had a little time so i worked on it.)
Astorian
When your model is placed side by side with the original structs it really stands-out as much finer work and then with the Truck you can also clearly see where the scale is whack in WZ itself and both in my perspective eye want your new model not to be smaller. Like Per I'm not a big fan of 1x2. In your "Up-graded" version of the model there is a "substantive fullness" (at a loss for words here) that was particularly appealing to my subjective sensibility. This last leads me to speculate that perhaps the "Upgraded" version could be the "Standard Start" version and you could come up with an enhancement to that model to indicate the "Up-graded" struct. What that "enhancement" would be, I dunno.

BTW - I also appreciate all the technical details your sharing here - it helps with my own on-going "things WZ" education. :D

Below I reproduce the screen of your Upgraded Model version so folks can see what I am referring to...

Image

Regards, whip :cool:
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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by Zarel » 28 Jul 2009, 20:35

astorian wrote:Hello Per and Zarel,
I have changed the orientation, size alignment of the research building and baseplate.

I have changed also the structures.txt (red are the changed values) :
A0ResearchFacility,RESEARCH,Level All,MEDIUM,1,1,2,Concrete,500,2,10,400,100,100,30,150,255,10,ZNULLECM,DefaultSensor1Mk1,0,BLRESCH0.PIE,blbresch.pie,1,0
You can also see the white rectangle when you are placing the structure to build on desired place.

The structure is a little bit smaller than the base-plate. Is the sizing ok?
I did not texture the base-plate yet, since i don't know if the size is ok.
Hmm, personally, I think the sizing is great. I think your screenshot shows one thing, though: The other structures use lighter gray concrete than yours. You may want to mess with the colors a bit.

Others have pointed out that your structure has more detail than the others. That's not necessarily a reason to make it bigger, though; we could always make the others more detailed, too.
Per wrote:So what is this building meant to be used for? If I were to come up with something, I'd suggest it is required for the effect of and is enabled by the last power upgrade research items. When we get the limited power storage idea implemented, it could also add lots of power storage. Ideally, though, it would do or show something when clicked on.

I think the new size of the power research lab is good. It looks really nice.

I must admit I am not terribly fond of 1x2 structures. They look geometrically odd. I think I would rather center the power research lab on a 2x2 base plate and have some cool power-grid-inspired drawings on the base plate. What do other people think?
It's hard to say, without a new baseplate texture, whether it looks better 1x2 or 2x2. Borg Factory handles it well, and I think this one could, too. I think it's workable in 1x2. I mean, the other 2x2s and 3x3s are legitimately that big, without need for adding anything off to the sides.

The main reason why I want 1x2 is because there usually isn't room in a base for another 2x2.

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by whippersnapper » 28 Jul 2009, 21:09

Zarel wrote:

The main reason why I want 1x2 is because there usually isn't room in a base for another 2x2.
Good point. Maps with limited Base real estate to build on like "Rush", for example.

Regards, whip :)
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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by Per » 28 Jul 2009, 22:50

whippersnapper wrote:Good point. Maps with limited Base real estate to build on like "Rush", for example.
But see, that's to me a reason for it to be 2x2. It forces you to prioritize and make hard choices instead of just adding more of the same kind of stuff. Rush has space for additional buildings - behind the base starting plateau. It is even easily defensible if you build up some hardpoints around the entrances to the valley.

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by whippersnapper » 29 Jul 2009, 03:08

Per wrote:
Quote "whippersnapper: "Good point. Maps with limited Base real estate to build on like "Rush", for example."

But see, that's to me a reason for it to be 2x2. It forces you to prioritize and make hard choices instead of just adding more of the same kind of stuff. Rush has space for additional buildings - behind the base starting plateau. It is even easily defensible if you build up some hardpoints around the entrances to the valley.
True. A legit consideration as well. Brings to mind the first few times I played on "Rush"... It seems funny in hindsight but back then I was afraid to build Base Structs outside those wall defenses. 'Course I got over it. ;)

Regards, whip :cool:
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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by astorian » 29 Jul 2009, 08:31

whippersnapper wrote: I see. Good to know how that actually works. :)
...
BTW - I also appreciate all the technical details your sharing here - it helps with my own on-going "things WZ" education. :D

Regards, whip :cool:
.
Hello whippersnapper!
Thank you for your point of view, i mainly agree with you.
About the details - i was thinking about making an video tutorial and post it on you-tube. It should be about changing structures in-game using blender.
What i can do i would share with all, so there might be more people that can do it on their own.
I was looking into some .pie files regarding animation, and i think i could try to edit/create one by my self later.

Keep it cool,
Astorian

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Re: Modeling Request - i do it!

Post by astorian » 29 Jul 2009, 09:01

Hi Per and Zarel,
From this post:
Per wrote: That is very neat. I would love to at least replace the current model of the same building with yours, because the existing model is unusably small scale for some reason.

Just a few minor issues:
* The building is a bit too large (or too small, if it is meant to be a larger building type). As you can see in your picture it protrudes outside the baseplate of the research building.
* We need a license to distribute it under. It is just one of those small, annoying things that we have to do to get distributed through various channels such as Linux distros. If you really don't care about such things, you can just give us permission to use it as public domain (the C0 thing that Zarel talked about).
i was thinking you guys really wanted to use the structure in-game, but after reading you posts i can see that you have different view in the size or other attributes of the structure.
Please don't take me wrong or picky, but it looks like you are not decided about the basic attributes or even if to use or not use the structure in-game.
Therefore, please agree on the attributes like size, base-plate, color and all that matters and i can do the structure for you. If you look on my work and you are not satisfied with texturing or mesh or anything else, i accept that i don't have the skill to do that. I know my (slow expanding) limits.
Figuring something out is the basic motor for my imagination when it leads to some fulfillment I hope you understand what i want to say.
Zarel wrote: Hmm, personally, I think the sizing is great. I think your screenshot shows one thing, though: The other structures use lighter gray concrete than yours. You may want to mess with the colors a bit.
I have used the WZ textures for laboratories, so my understanding was that WZ artists wanted to optically differentiate the lab (or research) buildings.

Best regards,
Astorian

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