Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!
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Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by iamaloner » 24 May 2012, 00:05

There are few current problems in Warzone 2100 and there are few of them...

Cyborgs:
Cyborgs should be only infrantry and they should not have bigger derivatives/versions, they are not gundams or supreme commander giant mecha, cyborgs should be a bit bigger then Scanvenger infratry. Any bigger cyborg is just stupid and useless...
Cyborgs are just infrantry and thats all, not giant wanzer or a gundam alike. Fix it or remove it.

Mech`s:
Mechs are logical advance in Warzone 2100 since its year 2100... They should replace medium and large/super cyborgs that are in fact not normal. Mech should have 2 or 4 leg propulsion, 2 weapons(main: machinegun/cannon secondary: rockets/mortar), size betwen small and large cyborg. They should be weaker then normal vehicles but stronger then Vtols...

Size of Objects:
One of problems of Warzone 2100 is the irational size of objects, current size is not proportional... Cyborgs should not be bigger then some house ruins or 2 larger then scanvenger infrantry... Some things should be resized to a proportional ratio.
If units are somewhat scaled down there would be also more spaces for movement and tactics...

I want your opinions and what would you like to see this suggestions implemented?

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Iluvalar » 24 May 2012, 03:04

So do you suggest that they take 2 hours of walk to reach the closer base.
Or that they look incredibly odd, by "walking" at the speed of light ?

Lol.
The scale of the units is intentional, and is needed to make an in-game 2 months war in real life 30 minutes and look credible. No one would be stupid enough to build his base a 30 seconds of walk than the nearest enemy.
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Jorzi » 24 May 2012, 07:28

I would like to call this "game scale" although I do realize that inconsistencies exist.
This can be compared to warcraft 3, where heroes are intentionally bigger than normal soldiers etc..
That said, a scale mod wouldn't hurt and I'd be willing to try it. It would also be a nice exercise in testing the capabilities of the game engine.
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Saberuneko » 24 May 2012, 08:59

I agree with most of what you say, Mechs would be a good addition to the game, the only exceptions are:
They should replace medium and large/super cyborgs that are in fact not normal. Mech should have 2 or 4 leg propulsion, 2 weapons
This would create a debalance, as would render double turreted tank body a bit useless due to the costs and time it takes to research it, unless we make the mechs unable to use most of the heavy weapons, creating a new unbalance due to a lack of heavy/advanced weaponry in that branch.
What's your idea for re-balancing the overall thing?
Fix it or remove it.
This still sounds like a direct autoritarian order to the staff/devs... What about:
"Maybe this should be either fixed or removed"

Still, I think your idea could work well if properly implemented.

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by iamaloner » 24 May 2012, 09:42

Mech`s should have 1 main and secondary gun... I think that mech units could be limited to only fire 1 weapon at a time...
Mechs could have low/medium rockets or low mortars and for main gun small/medium MG or Auto Cannon(mech version, if made).

The vehicles in warzone move kinda slowly and the terrain is kinda small even with largest maps when you have 4 or even 8 players. Anyway I hope that they could kinda test it and I hope it may increase performance if noticable... Actualy most things needs to be scalled...

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Emdek » 24 May 2012, 12:20

Saberuneko, or rebalance current tank bodies, for example give earlier multi turret bodies but as you said limit initial ones to light weapons only etc.
Or somehow cripple mechs in some other way, like make them slow or something like that. Earlier someone noticed that due to type of propulsion they should have bigger area to shoot them, so they should be easier to target on them.
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Saberuneko » 24 May 2012, 15:21

I like the idea of earlier multi-turreted bodies, having only one that takes so long time to research at our disposal makes it kinda unused.

This would be epic win:
Image
:3 :3 :3 :3 :3

About mechs, yeah, they could be a little slower and less armoured than vehicles, somehow giving a balance...

And now, what weapons do you think that would be the "specialized" against this unit type?
(Example: Cyborgs are weak against MGs, Flamers and Lasers, vehicles are weak against Cannons, Rockets and Mortars...)

What about Mechs? My personal thought is that they could be some mixture, for example, more resistant to Flamers than Cyborgs, as they're more armored, but maybe less resistant to Cannons, as they're bigger and easier to target...

The idea of substituting heavy cyborgs with Mechs sounds really attractive, if well thought...
I think that mech units could be limited to only fire 1 weapon at a time...
Interesting... but how would you control that? Some option in the unit menu, for example?

--

EDIT: Idea that just popped up in my mind...
What about mechs as a propulsion type (legs) for light/medium chassis only?
That would make them designable, and they could look somehow like this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/ ... ea.jpg.png

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Emdek » 24 May 2012, 15:37

Saberuneko wrote:What about Mechs? My personal thought is that they could be some mixture, for example, more resistant to Flamers than Cyborgs, as they're more armored, but maybe less resistant to Cannons, as they're bigger and easier to target...
Yeah, they should be probably something in between cyborgs and tanks, especially since they would look like something in between. ;-)

I'm not sure if limiting them to only two types of bodies is good idea but for sure those should be designable (personally I would also make cyborgs designable, especially if structures would become designable by default).
Maybe some upgrades should be necessary to use heavier bodies (and enabled later in game)? So they would be still useful to fight with Dragons. ;-)

Also there could be maybe some weapons (or more like, special versions of models, like for cyborgs) to make them look even cooler. That could even soften lack of lighter multi turret bodies if such weapons would be more like twin assault guns etc. (but probably less powerful).
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Rman Virgil » 24 May 2012, 15:40

.

WZ Mechs have been available for years as a Mod. In my own work I used them to replace the stock Commander Unit with Multiple Commander Types. Look up Xanax's Mech art assets in these BBs. Using those it's really not that difficult to make your own Mods if your willing to put the time into it. They are fun and add a new dimension to gameplay. That said, for a number of reasons I'm not gonna get into, I donot see them being made a part of the stock game at any time in the foreseeable future. Though they would be good candidates for AddOn Campaigns, I think.
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by iamaloner » 24 May 2012, 15:43

I think that mechs would be weak depending from how advance the mech is:
Minigun (T2)
Heavy Cannon/Plasma Cannon(T2/T3)
Plasmite Flamer(T2-T3)
Bombard/Hellstorm(T2/T3)
Rail/Gauss(T2-T3)

Well Mech for some stupid, 2 legged is like fast and rapid reaction ones while 4 legged are heavier ones and expensive...
Mechs should be expensive because they are like something betwen Infrantry and Armored units.

Their role is to secure or scout certain areas and maybe if possible devastate the surounding area.

Also I think that mechs should be controled by cyborgs and are they cant be "stolen" via Link Turret because of two systems in one... Its simple:
If mech is under Link attack then Cyborg will detect it and reset the mech and launch backup programming, same for cyborg.

In adition when Mech is destroyed then a cyborg that controls it exits from mech if possible, the mech will only have high impact velocity pistol. That cyborg is worth about 25% of the price of making a mech.

So... What do you think?

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Emdek » 24 May 2012, 15:47

iamaloner, that use of cyborgs inside them seems to be a bit overcomplicated. ;-)
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by iamaloner » 24 May 2012, 15:51

No its not complicated, it can be probavly scripted like a mini event.

Simple exsample:
Mech Destroyed = Spawn Cyborg Pilot

@Saber:
The Ai involved in mech could choose what to use if enemy is not in range of primary weapon. Its simple but an option in unit menu would be simple then again it would waste alot of precious time doing for a group or making a specific group of mechs for 1 specific attack!

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Emdek » 24 May 2012, 15:55

iamaloner, sure, it could be scripted, if it would be possible to script it so it would look well. ;-)

For stock implementation (I would really like to see two legged ones as standard feature) it is for sure overcomplicated.
Maybe as a mod, for sure not as default.
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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Giani » 24 May 2012, 16:03

iamaloner wrote: Size of Objects:
One of problems of Warzone 2100 is the irational size of objects, current size is not proportional... Cyborgs should not be bigger then some house ruins or 2 larger then scanvenger infrantry... Some things should be resized to a proportional ratio.
If units are somewhat scaled down there would be also more spaces for movement and tactics...
There is a thread about that.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8564
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501

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Re: Cyborgs,Mechs and size of objects...

Post by Giani » 24 May 2012, 16:07

Saberuneko wrote:
(Example: ...vehicles are weak against ...and Mortars...)
Wrong. Mortars are good against cyborgs.
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501

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