Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!
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aubergine
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by aubergine » 23 Jan 2012, 17:08

The post about the commander seems very similar to what I'm trying to achieve in EggPlant AI, only I'm doing it from a group approach. I guess the *Group AI's I'm working on are a bit like what commanders could have been.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by Rman Virgil » 23 Jan 2012, 17:48

aubergine wrote:The post about the commander seems very similar to what I'm trying to achieve in EggPlant AI, only I'm doing it from a group approach. I guess the *Group AI's I'm working on are a bit like what commanders could have been.
Sweetness maximus. XD

When dev work is further along on ease of New UI creation, work on advancing Commander GPMs in MP Mode can be revisited. I can already see clearly HOW the work you are doing creating Eggplant A.I. can be used to that end and that is more precisely what I meant when I wrote in the JS API thread the following post in response to a comment you made:
Rman wrote:In the end the Pandora's Box could very well transform into a cornucopia that propells WZ 2100 into the front ranks, finally, of elite RTSs while still maintaining its unique identity.

Let me unravel that comment some.

What you are proposing for your A.I. is gonna make it a VERY interesting and competitive A.I. - that much is clear.

The particulars of HOW it will accomplish that ALSO point to, and will demonstrate the viability of, a development direction for MP GPMs that will advance depth and breath of tactical game play like nothing else has done heretofore since 1999.

What I'm refering to in the last statement is the cognitive task ease of advanced maneuver (along with its associated situational awareness). And this is how I define "Advanced Maneuver": effective, simultaneous, command and control of at least 3 combat groups from coordinated, multiple vectors and varying velocities. (To translate from the A.I. context to MP capabilties would also require UI changes.)

I don't see anything else that has the definitive power to

"....propell WZ 2100 into the front ranks, finally, of elite RTSs while still maintaining its unique identity."
We have come full circle in a stimulating, informing & inspiring conversation that, speaking from my PoV, epitomizes synergy (among other crux conversational values). :3

Regards, R.V. :hmm:
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by effigy » 23 Jan 2012, 18:10

Rman Virgil wrote:...
historical documents
...
Is there a list somewhere of all the Wz Creator intentions that never made it into the game?
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by Rman Virgil » 23 Jan 2012, 19:05

Rman Virgil wrote:...
historical documents
...
effigy wrote:Is there a list somewhere of all the Wz Creator intentions that never made it into the game?
Nope. Closest we have preserved and not lost is the actual 2004 Source Code release which Cowboy still has on his server intact.

However the core list of the major stuff is not long. Here it is:

1.) ECMs.

2.) Commander A.I. (as was mentioned by Alex Lee, Pumpkin A.I. Guru).

3.) "Transformations" which was actually introduced in Patch 1.05 (I think) but was disabled in the next patch "to be revisited in the future after further refinements of the mechanic", as was stated by WZ Creators in their MPlayer BBs.

4.) Pilot Command / Battle Mode which was completed for the PS1 version but left in rudimentary form in the PC version.

Did I leave anything out ? (Campaign Transport in MP. The Borg Transport was an interim solution suggested by the community around Patch 1.03 because balancing the CAM Transport for MP Mode would require a lot more work & time.) Anything else ?

And the btw, just those 4 (5) items are HUGE in GPM development terms and, in combination-integration with what is already extant, is rightly viewed as part of WZ's unique RTS identity.

- Regards, RV. :hmm:
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by aubergine » 23 Jan 2012, 19:32

Transformations? Pilot command / battle mode?

BTW, I'm coming to the conclusion that WZ would benefit greatly from an architecture overhaul - but the amount of work required would make such a feat impossible due to dev resource constraints. :(
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by cybersphinx » 23 Jan 2012, 20:24

Rman Virgil wrote:Nope. Closest we have preserved and not lost is the actual 2004 Source Code release which Cowboy still has on his server intact.
Or here, I guess: https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... 765eb/game
We want information... information... information.

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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by Rman Virgil » 23 Jan 2012, 22:18

.
Rman Virgil wrote:Nope. Closest we have preserved and not lost is the actual 2004 Source Code release which Cowboy still has on his server intact.
cybersphinx wrote:Or here, I guess: https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... 765eb/game
Yup - one and the same. :) Thanks.
aubergine wrote:Transformations? Pilot command / battle mode?
* "Transformations": succession Tech Class upgrades to structure weaps without having to raze & rebuild from scratch.

* "Pilot command / battle mode": Pics below - From PS1 in-game and Project Artist Elio's mock-up for continuing the dev of the PC version.
aubergine wrote:BTW, I'm coming to the conclusion that WZ would benefit greatly from an architecture overhaul - but the amount of work required would make such a feat impossible due to dev resource constraints. :(
Some months after the source release at the end of 2004 (around Q2 of 0f 2005) a cross roads was defined / reached like so:

* Proceed to first focus on making WZ cross-platform for *nix & Mac gamers...

OR

* Study the source at length so as to go forward with re-vamping the architecture - starting with the Framework - to in essence, MODULARIZE it. (We spent months going over this dev strategy long BEFORE the source codes release because we'd gotten word privately well before the public announcement was made on Slash.dot that it had finally been OK'd by Eidos Europe. Silly & naive as it may sound now, the cross-platform interests never occurred to us - we were that insulated from the FOSS community's desire for games of this caliber.)

- Regards, Rman. :hmm:
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by IgorBrehm » 24 Jan 2012, 01:33

I WANT DRIVIND MODE IT IS SOOOOO AWESOME!!! XD :3

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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by aubergine » 24 Jan 2012, 04:31

From memory there is already some sort of driving mode in the game - see Drive Mode at the bottom of Cheats page: http://guide.wz2100.net/cheats
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by zydonk » 24 Jan 2012, 12:43

Corporal Punishment wrote:
zydonk wrote:Time constraints will always prompt rush tactics in mp, which suggests that strategies for dealing with them are more useful than attempts to prevent them in the first place.
Only WZ has no inherent time constraints. Any such constraint is introduced by the players but not by the game. I can not stress this enough: Players familiar with RTS games of the SC/C&C type instinctively play WZ in a fashion the original developers did not intend it to be played.
Hence maybe all that it needs is to educate players on how a game of WZ can be so much more then a primitive rush.
As far as technical measures are concerned, giving more weight to experience and commanders could be a way to accomplish the desired changes. Talking concrete, this means making units weaker and increasing the bonuses from ranks and commanders. Possibly even increase the commander limit and reduce maximum number of units a commander can lead.
Can you save an mp game and return to it? mp will always be much more pressurised than sk, if only because of the degree of human unpredictability. My point stands.

Isn't this natter wonderfully off-topic?

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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by lav_coyote25 » 24 Jan 2012, 18:11

zydonk wrote: Can you save an mp game and return to it? mp will always be much more pressurised than sk, if only because of the degree of human unpredictability. My point stands.

Isn't this natter wonderfully off-topic?
start coding, perhaps your efforts will pay off when people are able to save multiplayer games.... i agree about being more pressurized. thing is , no one is working on the code for such a thing. off topic? nothing is truly off topic.

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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by aubergine » 24 Jan 2012, 18:18

Saving MP games would suck unless they are turn-based IMHO.
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by zydonk » 25 Jan 2012, 12:42

lav_coyote25 wrote:
zydonk wrote: Can you save an mp game and return to it? mp will always be much more pressurised than sk, if only because of the degree of human unpredictability. My point stands.

Isn't this natter wonderfully off-topic?
start coding, perhaps your efforts will pay off when people are able to save multiplayer games.... i agree about being more pressurized. thing is , no one is working on the code for such a thing. off topic? nothing is truly off topic.
Re saving in mp - a rhetorical flourish to make the point that the fact that an mp bout must be finished in one session adds a time-pressure too. Can mp players actually leave their computers during a game? You know, to grab another beer or pee. (I know, I know, they play it in the jacks with the beer kept cool in the cistern!)

No off topic, lav? Can we hold you to that?

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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by Rman Virgil » 25 Jan 2012, 14:50

.

How you perceive and value "Off Topic" vis-a-vis "On Topic" is dependent on your dominant personality trait (Creative or Non-creative) and prevailing, supporting culture (Pixar-like or Wikipedia-like).

The dynamics between the 2 are well covered in Thomas Kuhn's classic "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" and Jaron Lanier's much more recent, "I am Not A Gadget".

This community is best served by a generative blending of both, IMHO. :3

This topic's progression is an example of such an operative blending, I think.

- Regards, RV. :hmm:
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Re: Idea: Territory mode (optional game feature)

Post by aubergine » 25 Jan 2012, 15:41

*wishes he could synaptic link to Rman's brain*

*also wishes he didn't suffer short term memory loss ...and long term memory loss ...and medium term memory loss.*
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