Faction ideas

[macuser]

Hi all, I know i've been gone for some time... And yes I know multiplayer factions have been mentioned before, however I had a few new ideas for multiplayer factions.

1. each color is a different faction
2. each faction has a special unit/building
3. each faction has different advantages like build speed or extra body strength (perhaps)

some ideas for special units:

1. green - big bertha (long range howitzer takes 4 tiles)
2. black - nexus link turret
3. blue - double turret super heavy body
4. red - cyborg jump jets

these are just some ideas I had. Please comments/crit

-regards macuser

[JDW]

Nice idea, and here's my two cents on the points you made,

1. each color is a different faction

Say I like to play with Red as my color. But the faction (types of units/structures) that I want is only available under another color, one that I maybe dislike. Wouldn't that be a problem? I suggest having factions available under any color, as an option to the player.

2. each faction has a special unit/building

Definitely. Or else there's no point of having factions, I think...

3. each faction has different advantages like build speed or extra body strength (perhaps)

As long as all factions are equally balanced, then it sounds like a good idea, IMHO. No one faction should be more powerful than the other. But wouldn't this come under the classes way of RTS, like in C&C4?

Overall, I still like the general idea of Multiplayer factions.

[Roux Le Corps]

if you could customise buildings more, maybe factions are just your design templates, so say for instance you in a previous game design assault gun, bug half tracks, you save it, when the tech is available in a new game in your faction instead of using time to desing it, its already availablr? same goes for buildings etc

[MetalWarrior95]

THat would be cool !

[Ubermad]

Factions have different building models. In every RTS game i have played the different factions have different models on their buildings. and also have some unique buildings and powers/advantages.
i strongly support this idea of factions. the game gets a bit boring with everyone having the same tanks and so on...

[Roux Le Corps]

but it would need to be pulled off while allow the total customization on-the-fly that is Warzone... tricky thorn this is.

[macuser]

Another Idea I had.... Radar VTOLS

[Aftermath]

I like the idea of different factions with unique characteristics but this is something that should be approached very carefully.
At the moment everyone has access to the same stuff, which means balance. Start adding unique stuff and that perfect balance is gone. I know they were only suggestions and so are bound to be flawed at this stage, but try to think, 'is a nexus link equal to dual-turret super heavies? How could you test it without bias?. A lot of work goes into balancing RTSs like C&C, maybe too much work for the few, multi-committed devs we have.

Also, to reiterate what i said in the successor to bunker buster thread, a new weapon should only be created to fill a tactical gap within the game, the game doesn't need any new long range artillery for example. I know i sound like a broken record but balance is the most important aspect of a multiplayer game. Adding weapons or changing the availabilty of existing ones will upset balance (or create more work for devs as they try to rebalance the game after such changes). Upsetting something as fundamental to the game as balance for the sake of unique factions would be a terrible mistake.

Another thing, (i really can go on and on so sorry) once you get passed the whole Nexus thing, Warzone is about factions emerging from their bunkers in a post apocalyptic world, trying to relocate 'pre-collapse' technology. They find this tech in pre collapse structures or steal it from one and other, it is highly likely that one faction learned how to build its cyborg factory from the same set of blueprints as another faction, which is a perfectly good excuse for each faction having identical structures etc.

Things that would make a faction unique that could be implimented without messing up game balance:-

Custom Faction Name:- Needs no explanation, can be displayed in the player window in game, in your sig on the forum, across the screen for all to see when you win/get defeated and so on.

Faction graphics - A faction logo, displayed along side any instance of your Custom Faction name. This could range from a selection of simple images to animated flash ones (to look like the ones in the campaign). Even better if a player had the option to create his own and import them into the game (ie if he had photo/flash design software and new how to use it).

Expanding on this idea, it could be possible to add another skin layer to the vehicles and structures in game and have the players chosen logo appear on them!

Why stop there, you could have different skins sets replacing the standard ones on vehicle chassis etc, how about urban camoflage, tiger stripes, squadren decals etc. Creating a new skin is easier than creating a new model as far as im aware.

Faction Bio - a link to a brief biography about your faction, maybe just on the forums, im not sure what hosting is available, would be cool if players could link to an online profile where the info is stored, offcourse if the was possible you could have the works, leaderboards, unlockables, achievements, whatever.

Anyway got to rush because my gf is waiting, hopefully you'll get where im coming from, warzone is a great game without adding whatever cool weapon idea jumps into your head, If your firing off your uber super heavy cannon at someones base, another player somewhere is thinkng - sod this!

[macuser]

Well I see what you are saying as far as balance, but I have played many other games that have factions and work out quite well:

1. Civ 3,4
2. Allegiance space war
3. Age of Empires

etc.

Also Josh made a good point:

2. each faction has a special unit/building

Definitely. Or else there's no point of having factions, I think...

[Aftermath]

Those games were built to include factions from the beginning, civilization and age of empires needed unique units to help identify the different historical factions they represented, plus they had tons of historical reference to draw upon, real weapons that gave their bearers real tactical advantages (also the unique units were simply slightly stronger versions of the units the other factions had, and became obselete before the end game). I never heard of the other one. They had an army of paid developers who could test and tweak to ensure the game was balanced when released.

Warzone has no historical faction requirements to fill nor does it have much to draw on in terms of background that would warrant factions with technological advantages over its enemies. Not atleast without expanding on the existing story which isn't what the revival project is about.

I get what you want, i really do, you want something that will make your army different to everyone elses, something to give you an edge in whatever strategy you like best. Youv'e given examples of other games that have this, and want warzone to have what they have because it will be 'cool'. Warzone 2100 is Warzone 2100, its over 10 years old and currently i choose to play it over the likes of Civilization 4, M2TW and Earth 2160 which i have installed on my PC because Warzone is unique in its simplicity, please keep it that way and don't try to clog it up with features that were never meant for it.

Custom Faction identity - yes please! my own faction logo to put fear/loathing into the hearts of my enemies wherever they see it.
Unique units/structures - no thanks.

Final words - In my extensive experience of RTSs that have unique factions with unique units, usually one faction emerges above all others because its unique elements are discovered to be the most tactically advantageous. C&C generals had the GLA Toxin General could build defensive tunnels faster and which were stronger than normal ones. A player could build one in the enemies base from the outset, cutting off his resources. Before it was nerfed a disproportionatly high percentage of players chose the GLA toxin commander in multiplayer. We dont want this to happen to Warzone.

[macuser]

Perhaps If I worked on balance with factions?..... or perhaps allow it to be turned off? oh by the way... the "other" one as you said is at http://www.freeallegiance.org/ very nice - actually that is where i found out about warzone from

[3drts]

1. each color is a different faction
...
3. each faction has different advantages like build speed or extra body strength (perhaps)

*cough* single player campaign*cough*

Scavengers, were the most distinct faction in SP.

NP units- advantage was speed, cost, build speed.
Collective units - advantage was extra body strength
Project - advantage was relative to others- faster, cheaper than collective tanks, stronger than NP tanks.
Nexus - advantage was just plain better tanks, though expensive, and auto repair.

To some extent, each faction also had their own weapon set, aside from the project, who just gained the weapon sets of the others.

but it would need to be pulled off while allow the total customization on-the-fly that is Warzone... tricky thorn this is.

Yes, this is the problem.
The way I envision it, one would pick their body line from the very start- all Nexus/NP/Collective/Project bodies have the same tech requirements for their light/medium/heavy bodies.
If you pick one faction, you start with bug bodies, and after factory module get scorpions.
If you pick another, you start with leopards, and get panthers after factory modules.
This might actually make leopards useful, as they would see combat before medium tanks, and would have a chance to use their superior armor and body points relative to other tanks.

If you have NP bodies, and kill a collective factory, the first artifact dropped always drops an artifact for the leopard - maybe this unlocks the panther and tiger, maybe you need to find artifacts for those too.

However, I don't see how this could be balanced, at least not for T1.
Retaliation bodies would be prohibitively expensive early game, when you sinply mount a 10 power peashooter machinegun on it.
Without more expensive (and effective) weapons, the more expensive bodies are not effective.
Maybe we reduce it to just 3 factions, and all can get the Nexus bodies with high enough tech.


The way I would see doing it: make each body line have the body before it as a pre-req, and the light body - is un-researchable.
In un-modded warzone you NEVER research some techs: Trucks, wheels, Viper - they are given to you at the start.
So factions just have a different light body tech given to them at the start.
The other faction light bodies cannot normally be researched, they must be given to you at the start, or made available by a captured artifact.

However, as discussed on the body balance page- New paradigm units are pretty much the best for multiplayer, and I significant changes would be needed to balance this.

[macuser]

Now 1 thing.... I know I have been inactive for some time, but now I'm going to try to start up again.

I am going to make some faction models etc.

[macuser]

here is highpoly markup of big bertha (it takes 4 squares on map).... questions comments and crits welcome.

[macuser]

More improvements