Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by winsrp » 14 Dec 2009, 23:40

to be honest with you praefectus, I didn't read the rest of the post besides the title, and just thought of what type of AA is this game missing, and like a sparkle of magic a flame AA came to mind, since I'm more willing to see a flame version of every other single weapon in this game.

I don't normally do flame weapons and they seem to be a wasted upgrade (I know they are good but I never use them much) in the way the current game is balanced, and given the fact that more powerful weapons can come from combining techs, since that is the normal way things end up, the normal upgrade would be fire AA, since we already have, the machine gun aa, shootgun aa, missile aa and laser AA... and since we cannot have a fire machigun AA (too soon) or, fire laser AA (too stupid, laser already involves heat), then the fire flak AA, and fire missile AA are the ones missing in the picture.

On the combine techs part, if you combine a machine gun tech with a cannon tech, you get something like the Hyper velocity cannon, for example, and since most weapons can have a fire effect on them then... we could also make a 3 tech combination and have a fire hyper velocity cannon... why not...

Still there are some troubles with some techs like Mortar and Howitzer, since to me, Howitzers are the upgraded version of Mortars, but the game thinks otherwise, so if they are both primary techs how would yo combine them, but thats a topic for another post.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Zarel » 15 Dec 2009, 00:04

Fire AA really doesn't make sense. How are you going to get fire to an airplane? A "fire missile"? What's that, a missile that explodes once it hits the plane? Yeah, regular missiles already do that. "Fire flak"? What does that even mean? You throw flaming shards at the airplane? Why not just use a bow and arrow while you're at it? :[ Seriously, fire doesn't make much sense for AA.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by winsrp » 15 Dec 2009, 00:24

come on Zarel use your imagination a little bit, where did you leave your happy thought....

fire aa flak... shells explode in the air and do burn damage, in the sense of on fire shards, why not, you told that yourself, only imagining it is scary!!!

fire aa missile, yeah all missiles explode... but not all go out as a napal do they... they have to be build to do that... then, why can'twe have a Napal AA missile? a fire could explodes in middle air, it would be like trowing a molotov to the air and have it explode at middle fly, first a big fire cloud bursts, then fire columns start coming down. (I know we cant have that effect on the game, only the red aura, but hey... I'm a creative guy with lots of imagination)

There, try not to hamper all ideas would you, creativity should be valuated, and we are not asking you to put it into the core game, (at least not me) I might as well put it into a mod and see how does it feels to have it around, might be interesting, and if its not interesting then it will go to the garbage can like all the other non interesting ideas.

I'm just trying to use the same game mechanics to build new weapons, and since we only have kinetic and burn damage, then, we don't have much to choose from, If we would have things like, acid (example from top of my head) then we would have made more combinations, but since we don't have them, we do what we can with what we have.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Zarel » 15 Dec 2009, 00:32

I dunno, there's somewhat of an assumption that threads here are for the core game. I suppose "Mapping/Modding" would be a good place to discuss ideas that aren't going to be put in the core game. Would you like me to move this thread there?

It's true that I come down a bit harsh on most ideas, but when there's an idea that I don't think will ever be added to the core game, I feel it's better to say that than to give anyone false hope.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by winsrp » 15 Dec 2009, 01:27

well, since most of ideas are hard (to say the least), to get to the core game, I assume that the best approach for topics such as balance, new weapons and stuff from that kind of topics are better first within a mod, then if they get enough acceptance they might have a better change to get to the core game (not to mention code is already done in a mod, and its just copy paste to implement)

If I go with something like yeah where is the ECM, were the games does not has such thing and ECM must be programed into the core itself to start with, then that comes from a different fruit tree, but if its something that does not requires a true core programmer as yourself, them I don't see the need to have it programmed into the core from the beginning.

About the thread moving, well, is not my post, so no, don't move it cus I would put it into a mod, and looking it from another point, this is the Ideas sub-forum, all ideas start with the premise that would be good on the core, but why not test them in a mod first to see what comes out. ;) that way is less work for you guys, and some other member of the community can help testing out ideas, as long as is possible.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Olrox » 15 Dec 2009, 01:47

I was thinking about napalm (or highly adherent concentrated flammable gel). The projectile explodes at a determined altitude (aiming at a plane, truly, but it explodes even if it doesn't *hit* the plane), releasing the flaming gel all around the radius, causing planes inside the perimeter to be set on fire. As they are high speed you've got plenty oxygen to burn.

Another option I can think of would be shrapnel rounds: The shell explodes at a determined altitude, releasing shrapnel at high speeds in all directions on a given radius.

Actually, shrapnel shells would also make sense if used with artillery, but its role of fighting large numbers of enemies is already filled by Incendiary howitzer and mortar.
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As for implementing this idea, I must say what I think every time people touch on this "game core implementing" affair:
If the devs like it, they will help. If they like it from the beginning, it is from the beginning that they'll help. If it isn't, someone who likes it will make it a mod (or not). If it is made, maybe the devs will get to like it. If not, at least the mod is made for those who like the idea. If it is community-wide accepted as a completely productive addition to the game, probably the devs will consider it. If it's not accepted by the community, the place for it is in a mod, not the core.
That said, I can't see why people keep getting upset (I'm not referring to anyone here, in any way) about it. The decisions about what to change are based on what the forum community and the devs think, so anyone here can announce their work to those who matter.

If the idea is good, it'll be fine. If it isn't good, it won't be done: completely fair.

I think that it's a good idea and am disposed to help with the model. As I'm not a member of the staff, I don't need to care so much about it getting into the core or not, I'll make my models so that someone can get interested on it - regular member or dev, it doesn't matter.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by winsrp » 15 Dec 2009, 04:45

See thats what I like about Olrox, we are on the same page... ;) seems like we will have our napalm AA after all.. jejeje :cool:

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Corporal Punishment » 16 Dec 2009, 15:16

Supposing an aircraft flying through a "cloud" of burning gel, it will surely get covered in it, but will the gel keep burning given the high velocity of the aircraft? Or would it rather be cooled down due to the cold airstream?
By the way: FLAK or FlaK really, is a german abbreviation for Flugabwehrkanone, Air-defense-cannon. Accordingly, words like aa-FLAK or FLAK-gun do not make any sense. No offense meant, just a side note.
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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by winsrp » 16 Dec 2009, 16:02

Corporal Punishment wrote:is a german abbreviation for Flugabwehrkanone
I had completely no idea... O_o
Corporal Punishment wrote:Or would it rather be cooled down due to the cold airstream?
Well, normally fire is powered by wind, I know if its cold, it should not burn that much, but have you seen an airplane engine get on fire... it does not cools down by cold air.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Olrox » 18 Dec 2009, 22:12

I've made models, it's the first version and I can reduce polys alot further, so please, no fanfare about that: I know I'll have to do it. I've made two versions because I felt like it, I think that we should have at least one additional turret to make this new "family" of weapons. Like flamers, perhaps we could make another upgrade, for plasmite technology.

Any comments about the geometry/composition?

I remind that incendiary fuel tanks make no sense, since incendiary shells are pre-assemblied, and the incendiary material is sealed until explosions.

By the way, is it possible to make flamers deal area burn damage when they're exploded? It'd make sense due to their large fuel tanks. Just a thought, anyway.
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120mm Flak & twin 120mm Flak.png

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by praefectus » 19 Dec 2009, 01:44

Olrox wrote:Any comments about the geometry/composition?
O_O :D I'd imagined the muzzle more like the heavy cannon, but this is also very cool, and
clearly looks like a new weapon type. Thumbs up!

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by winsrp » 19 Dec 2009, 05:18

Olrox wrote:Any comments about the geometry/composition?
Well, they look like a howitzer IMO, remember that the have to look that the can be looking at 90 degrees up, or close to that, and they seem to have too much rear, even to move over 5 degrees. Can you put a back shoot of them, maybe its just the viewing angle. O_o
Olrox wrote:is it possible to make flamers deal area burn damage when they're exploded?
Sure... all damages types (kinetic and burn), have both damage, and radius damage, so its possible, and actually its the same that I was thinking. xD

Do you have the pie files with a name you wont change anymore so I can try to put them into a mod and see what comes up.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Olrox » 19 Dec 2009, 08:43

winsrp wrote:Well, they look like a howitzer IMO, remember that the have to look that the can be looking at 90 degrees up, or close to that, and they seem to have too much rear, even to move over 5 degrees. Can you put a back shoot of them, maybe its just the viewing angle. O_o
I've tested them up to 60 degrees inclination, and looking at other Flaks I've realized that most of them couldn't tilt too much anyway. The one I based my model on, barely, was Flak 40
They could have minimum range limits to further balance the weapon, I think.
winsrp wrote: Sure... all damages types (kinetic and burn), have both damage, and radius damage, so its possible, and actually its the same that I was thinking. xD
I meant the flamer turret vehicles, when they are destroyed.

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Re: Suggestion: New type of AA gun/cannon

Post by Assault Gunner » 02 Jan 2010, 18:09

I like the idea of flamer turret vehicles explode if they die. It adds a significant incentive to properly armor them. If implemented, the more powerful turrets should have a larger explosion. Mayber basic flamer=howitzer explosion and Inferno=groundshaker explosion? Plasmite=Inferno.

I also like the idea of a anti-formation, immobile AA weapon. Maybe mount it on some kind of fortress?
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