Externalizing the unit control limit

[winsrp]

So normally when I play on MP i guess the production halted message and well it gets annoying. I do know that lots of times there has been discussion about how max units should be increased and bla bla bla, BUT!!!

#1 how does unit limits work? as fas as I know it's hard coded is this true, and if not, where can I change it for a mod.
#2 If unit limit is hard coded then can it be externalized in a flat file? just like the building limits, not in the same file, but in a separate one, so modders can just change this single value from .... I don't now, like 300 that is now, and change it what ever they like but the game core is unchanged in the un-moded way.

how this sounds? too complicated? making the game read the max for units from an external file?

[lav_coyote25]

1) unit limits are as follows

trucks = 15

all other units ( vtols / ground / cyborg any combination) = 285

[winsrp]

is there somewhere i can change this? or is it hardcoded?

[Zarel]

1) unit limits are as follows

trucks = 15

all other units ( vtols / ground / cyborg any combination) = 285

Wrong, it's more like:

trucks = 15
total units = 300

You can have more than 285 other units, if you have less than 15 trucks.

[winsrp]

I think we are deviating from the question here... is there a file where I can change this value? or would it be possible to move this value outside the game code?

[lav_coyote25]

whatever... 300 is 300. most *NORMAL people use 15 trucks. which leaves what?? ok so use 5 and what remains is?? or 10 trucks... still way to many units anyways.

( *normal being subjective anyways...) xD

[KenAlcock]

1) unit limits are as follows

trucks = 15

all other units ( vtols / ground / cyborg any combination) = 285

Wrong, it's more like:

trucks = 15
total units = 300

You can have more than 285 other units, if you have less than 15 trucks.

I'm sorry but I disagree. Every single-player and multiplayer skirmish game I have played has limited me to:

Trucks/Combat Engineer Cyborgs = 15
Total Units = 150

What's more, The 15 Trucks/Combat Engineer Cyborgs are included the count of 150 total units, as are things like Cyborg Transports. So if you keep 15 Trucks/Combat Engineer Cyborgs, you can only have 135 other units. And if you recycle all your 15 Trucks/Combat Engineer Cyborgs, then you can have 150 total combat units, not more.

Unless you developers changed the limits somewhere in v2.3?

[Zarel]

...this is what happens when you reply to three-month-old threads. Buginator lowered the unit control limit from 300 to 150 in the meantime. Go take it up with him. :[

And I already said that the unit limit includes trucks/engineers, if you'll read my previous post.

[lav_coyote25]

:rolleyes: again. no one reads.

[KenAlcock]

...this is what happens when you reply to three-month-old threads. Buginator lowered the unit control limit from 300 to 150 in the meantime. Go take it up with him. :[

Okay, responding a three-month-old thread isn't quite like three-year-old thread. And this is the Ideas and Suggestions forum. Even if someone were responding to a three-lifetime-old thread, Ideas and suggestions shouldn't come with expiration dates if the topic does not appear to be closed, and some questions still appear to be left unanswered. Fresh input to an old idea can often improve it. I searched for a relevant thread, since I had the same kind of suggestion (though I was thinking of being able to change the limit in the GUI, instead of in a file). So when I found this relevant thread I participated. (Last I checked, this is what most forum moderators prefer more people would do.)

And I already said that the unit limit includes trucks/engineers, if you'll read my previous post.

Yeah I got that right after I submitted my post. (I read the number wrong the first time through.) I was also trying to summarize the current limit state for the next reader to include things like Cyborg Transports in the discussion. You see, when I first made the move from playing campaign to skirmish. I did not initially think of Cyborg Transports as units in the unit count, mainly because of how the large transports aren't counted in a player's units in the Campaign.

:rolleyes: again. no one reads.

This isn't true. I actually do read the release notes you guys write, I most likely missed this because it's in the beta 1 release notes, and I picked up v2.3 with beta 2 and I always read the release notes online (which only include notes for that release). I only recently noticed the ChangeLog.txt file in the program folder. (I wish you would install a shortcut to this in the program group, it would make reading the history a little easier to find.) If you scroll up, you'll notice that I did allude to possibility that the limits had been changed with my question.

But my summarizing the recent information was meant as an invitation for you developers to participate further into the discussion about the being able to set the limits ourselves and to elaborate on why the limits changed and how feasible the OP's ideas and suggestions are. We on the outside of your inner circle only get glimpses into your way of thinking. We have to ask for the gory details sometimes.

Cutting the limits in half is a pretty drastic change, so is the game going that way for good, or is this more a short-term mitigation plan for some as-yet unresolved performance issues?

And does this have any bearing on the feasibility of allowing us players to set such limits for our games?

I would actually like the be able to host multiplayer games and be able to set a total units per player limit on the limits screen in the GUI. I think the host should be able to set such limits and that you folks should post recommended limits somewhere based upon the number of players and AIs. If only two players/AIs are in the game why not allow more units per player? If a full 8 are in, then it should be more limited. Something along those lines.

[Zarel]

Okay, responding a three-month-old thread isn't quite like three-year-old thread. And this is the Ideas and Suggestions forum. Even if someone were responding to a three-lifetime-old thread, Ideas and suggestions shouldn't come with expiration dates if the topic does not appear to be closed, and some questions still appear to be left unanswered. Fresh input to an old idea can often improve it. I searched for a relevant thread, since I had the same kind of suggestion (though I was thinking of being able to change the limit in the GUI, instead of in a file). So when I found this relevant thread I participated. (Last I checked, this is what most forum moderators prefer more people would do.)

/shrug/ It depends. Replying to this one makes it seem like a lot less time had passed than actually had. Different forums have different policies, but in general replying to old threads is worse than making a new one. You can link to the old thread in your new one, after all.

I really didn't mean to blame you; you did nothing wrong.

Yeah I got that right after I submitted my post. (I read the number wrong the first time through.) I was also trying to summarize the current limit state for the next reader to include things like Cyborg Transports in the discussion. You see, when I first made the move from playing campaign to skirmish. I did not initially think of Cyborg Transports as units in the unit count, mainly because of how the large transports aren't counted in a player's units in the Campaign.

Really? Are you sure they aren't counted?

This isn't true. I actually do read the release notes you guys write, I most likely missed this because it's in the beta 1 release notes, and I picked up v2.3 with beta 2 and I always read the release notes online (which only include notes for that release). I only recently noticed the ChangeLog.txt file in the program folder. (I wish you would install a shortcut to this in the program group, it would make reading the history a little easier to find.) If you scroll up, you'll notice that I did allude to possibility that the limits had been changed with my question.

It's okay; we don't blame you. Everyone makes mistakes, and it'd be unreasonable to expect you to know everything. As a developer, some things seem like things "everyone knows" even if only a few people know it. To be honest, I didn't know about the change (I don't read changelogs in detail) until players started complaining about it to me (why do I always catch flak for Buggy and Per's controversial changes? :/ )

But my summarizing the recent information was meant as an invitation for you developers to participate further into the discussion about the being able to set the limits ourselves and to elaborate on why the limits changed and how feasible the OP's ideas and suggestions are. We on the outside of your inner circle only get glimpses into your way of thinking. We have to ask for the gory details sometimes.

Cutting the limits in half is a pretty drastic change, so is the game going that way for good, or is this more a short-term mitigation plan for some as-yet unresolved performance issues?

There've been a few more recent forum discussions on the change, iirc.

The change was made because Buggy decided the netcode would have problems with 300 units per player. He's probably right.

Personally, I don't think anyone needs 300 units, either. Warzone's gameplay was never balanced for armies that large - you'll notice the PS1 version had a unit limit of 50.